2009 XTX skid in an SX Viper setup

[Ding]

I am not sure what happened this year, but an XTX skid in an 02 Viper that used to ride fairly well went really bad this year. I had spent quite a bit of time tuning it to get it where I liked it, but then on a very rough trail this year I had to turn the compression almost to max and set the torsion springs to medium and the front skid spring had to be tightened up. The ride had gotten horrible. Now that I am back home I cannot find my notes on this anywhere so don't know where to start again. I have read a number of posts on the setup of this skid with quite a few varying viewpoints. I would normally start with ride height or set-in and then adjust damping from there but the balance of the skid seems way off.

Who has messed with this skid a lot and what did you find. I use this sled off-trail a lot but need to be able to make it down the trail without killing myself to get to the off-trail riding. To put it in perspective the torsion springs seem to be weak and the ride is worse than an old Pro-Action for those that remember. Is there a good test for these torsion springs, and is there places to look for binding?

Help me get started back on track if you can.

 

[MrSled]

Check the rear shock body, is it split or ballooned out?

 

[herndonp]

x2

Pete

 

[maim]

x3

I was also going to suggest a shock refresh/rebuild to start with. how are the blocks at the bottom? mine was sticking there until I put the hygear spacers in. much better now.

 

[Ding]

Thanks guys, you are right I should start with the obvious. Never hurts to be reminded though.

I do have some concern that the torsion springs are binding somehow. I do think my ride height (with rider) is low after the first bump. This is where my lost notes would have been very helpful.

Hey Maim how you doing - when you mentioned the blocks at the bottom are you referring to the adjustment blocks (triangle) or something else.

 

[Ding]

Both shocks appear fine, but I will rebuild them this summer. The torsion springs appear fine at the adjuster cam end. They rock to one side on the shaft but I think this is normal. I presume that this is where the HyGear spring spacers can be an improvement. Now at the lower capture points the spring appears to be twisted. This may be what Maim was talking about. I can't tell if the nylon holder is worn or what is going on, but there does appear to be some friction going on there.

Here are some pics . . .

 

[Ding]

And a few more . . . (Yes it does need a bath)

 

[Ding]

What it is in . . .

 

[Ding]

Anybody got any more thoughts on this. I will tear it down soon, but wondering about any known issue areas and what to look for. Also, who has experience with the Star suspension kit for serious off-trail use?

 

[Ding]

Here is a pic of the "Hooks" (Yamaha name) that the long leg of the torsion springs sit in. I think this is what Maim was referring to. I have determined that there is a good deal of friction going on there which impedes the skid travel in both directions. I think it due to the uneven wear pattern which is twisting the leg of the spring and not allowing it to slide easily as the skid travels. I also have determined that it appears that Yamaha modified the design of these "hooks" on more recent models. It appears there are multiple parts in the new design.

Question: Can the newer design be easily installed in place of the previous design.​

Here is the picture and you can see the old design and uneven wear . . .

 

[Viper_Dave]

Ding, you really need the Hygear spacers. They'll minimize the twisting action of the spring. Can't answer your question about the spring retainer. My 11 and 09 are the same as what you have. I don't think you'd like the Star kit. It eliminates the transfer adjustment. You control transfer with the limiter strap. Knowing your propensity for um, bending things, I'd be leery of using it. Works great on trail though.

 

[Ding]

Thanks Dave, how have you been?

Do you feel that the Star kit decreases transfer or simply eliminates the ability to adjust it separately? Do you have a feel for how much transfer it leaves or removes?

 

[Viper_Dave]

It transfers well and removes the stiction that occurs in this skid. My sled now rises to the top of travel when I get off the sled. My ONLY concern is if a limiter strap, or both, breaks. Unless you have the shortened front shock, the linkage can flip and destroys your front skid am, track, etc. I check mine before I leave EVERY trip. And I'm doing great. Did Cody tell you I stopped and talked to him? Another reason I mentioned the ending of things LOL!

 

[Ding]

Yah, Cody mentioned that you stopped and talked to him while he sat with his broken sled waiting for me come get him. Originally we had planned to see you guys but didn't get left from Gwinn as early as we had planned. Thanks for the feedback on the Star kit. I had read about the flip-over issue and will have to do some more research on it.

So I looked up the parts for the spring retainers. Looks like they moved the wheel forward in 2011 on the Nytro XTX and used a new retainer (mounted on a bolt instead of wheel support), but not on the 2011 Apex XTX (go figure). Then in 2012 they both had the wheel forward and the new retainer. Then in 2013 they went with a 2 part retainer with a saddle style like the retainers/adjusters on the other end of the spring. It just seems like the saddle style would wear better and not bind.

btw: Tye and I did get to ride Cooke City and Taylor Fork / Carrot Top Montana this year. I was on a modded M8 and Tye was on a modded RMK - both 163's. All I can say is wow, I sure hope Yamaha catches up in the mountain class. My old Viper is no where near the off-trail sled that these 2 are. They jump on top of the snow and are extremely flickable (almost too much) so you can change directions easily to go around trees, rocks, etc.

 

[Viper_Dave]

Yeah, the M8 I rode in Togwotee was pretty impressive. Hard to believe a stock sled can go the places we went.