Yamahammer485
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Okay boys, first code ever, and it left me stranded.... and rode a doo home.
After reading about a code 46 in the Nytro side a few days ago, I knew what it instantly was, and thanks to another members description, I instantly turned my arse around and headed home, only to have it crap out near the side of a road.
The code means no vehicle power supply.
Im thinking this is maybe just the battery or a loose terminal? I have never had to charge the battery before and it has always had lots of charge and the starts have been nice and "perky"
This is just my thoughts, anyone have any suggestions on what has happened?
After reading about a code 46 in the Nytro side a few days ago, I knew what it instantly was, and thanks to another members description, I instantly turned my arse around and headed home, only to have it crap out near the side of a road.
The code means no vehicle power supply.
Im thinking this is maybe just the battery or a loose terminal? I have never had to charge the battery before and it has always had lots of charge and the starts have been nice and "perky"
This is just my thoughts, anyone have any suggestions on what has happened?
Yamahammer485
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Heres the link to the other members post.
Summarized, the stator was pumping out 1/2 the voltage, but when replaced, nothing changed. Now, after taking a hair dryer to the relays, its works fine for now.
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... sc&start=0
Summarized, the stator was pumping out 1/2 the voltage, but when replaced, nothing changed. Now, after taking a hair dryer to the relays, its works fine for now.
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... sc&start=0
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
Relays may be frozen? Maybe. But, was the battery still fully charged? If the battery had 12+ VDC, then it should have kept it going for a long while, unless the relay took the power off the sled. But, typically this is only a problem when things are cold. This was a warm seld. ??? If the battery did not have 12 VDC, then maybe there is a charging problem. You may want to charge the battery and look for 13+ VDC on it when the seld is running.
Yamahammer485
TY 4 Stroke Guru
This sled was totally warm and was in a heated garage for days before. When it went, I was only outside for 20 mins, so I kind of get the feeling that it might not be a relay freezing up.
Does the apex run with a low battery and does it slowly charge itself? If so, then im sure its not the battery, because once the code starting flashing, each time after that id start it it started harder and harder.
Ill try charging it like you suggested and see how it goes.
Just hope its not a stator problem....
Does the apex run with a low battery and does it slowly charge itself? If so, then im sure its not the battery, because once the code starting flashing, each time after that id start it it started harder and harder.
Ill try charging it like you suggested and see how it goes.
Just hope its not a stator problem....
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
If the battery goes too low, the thing will not run. But, If you are starting it, it should run. However, starting harder each time? That could be an indicator the battery may not be recharging.
After you charge the battery fully, then test the voltage on the battery as the sled is running. Again look for > 13VDC at 3,000 RPM. If you are seeing the 13VDC, but this happens again, then I would get the battery tested.
What kind of charger are you using? These batteries take a special charger. Did you charge the battery monthly during the summer? Not having the right charger or not charging in the summer monthly will reduce battery life significantly.
After you charge the battery fully, then test the voltage on the battery as the sled is running. Again look for > 13VDC at 3,000 RPM. If you are seeing the 13VDC, but this happens again, then I would get the battery tested.
What kind of charger are you using? These batteries take a special charger. Did you charge the battery monthly during the summer? Not having the right charger or not charging in the summer monthly will reduce battery life significantly.
Yamahammer485
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Len Todd said:
Do I take a volt reading from the little leads that you would use for jump starting (above the oil tank)?
Also, never once did I charge this battery before, and as of 5 mins ago, put it on a lead acid battery 2A motomaster trickle charger charger. From the sounds of it, this charger sounds like it might not be the right one
Just some more info, once I brought the sled home and lifted it out of the back of the truck, it started and ran and was able to reverse it into my garage. Mind you, it barely had enough power to turn the starter, but it fired right up. Im thinking that the battery recovered a little bit.
The way it died was sequential, like the code started flashing, then had poor performance like missing, then guage went out totally then full out died, but it died slowly and painfully, like the misfired kept getting worse and worse and the engine was just dying. It felt like maybe all the juice on the sled was only coming from the battery and not the charging system. If this is the case, which relay should I throw in the garbage or take apart and clean?
Thanks for all your help btw, your a great help and I really appreciate it!
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
Reading the voltage to see if the sled is charging at the jumper cables will work.
The right charger is an Optimate III or IV or a "Battery Tender" will also work.
The sled does not have the extra power to charge a significantly discharged battery. Even on a long run (couple hundred miles), you may not get a good charge. You need to cycle the battery with the proper charger.
The charger you are using may get the battery charged. But to get a reasonable life (three years or so) you need the right charger from the start.
If the battery is now trashed, you might get it charged enough to be O.K. for a while. But, it will most-likely go bad again. After a good charging, the auto parts store should be able to load test it. Or, ... the Optimate charger will tell you if it is good, after it cycles it.
Given the code and your symptoms, it is the battery.
The right charger is an Optimate III or IV or a "Battery Tender" will also work.
The sled does not have the extra power to charge a significantly discharged battery. Even on a long run (couple hundred miles), you may not get a good charge. You need to cycle the battery with the proper charger.
The charger you are using may get the battery charged. But to get a reasonable life (three years or so) you need the right charger from the start.
If the battery is now trashed, you might get it charged enough to be O.K. for a while. But, it will most-likely go bad again. After a good charging, the auto parts store should be able to load test it. Or, ... the Optimate charger will tell you if it is good, after it cycles it.
Given the code and your symptoms, it is the battery.
Yamahammer485
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Just an update, when I posted last night, I immediately took the charger off, so it was only on for about 3 minutes.
Anyways, when I was attaching the leads, they accidentally touched and there was some crazy arcing going on, with lots of sparks, which makes me think that there is some power left in the battery.
Isnt something still wrong to make the sled run the battery run out of power to begin with?
Anyways, when I was attaching the leads, they accidentally touched and there was some crazy arcing going on, with lots of sparks, which makes me think that there is some power left in the battery.
Isnt something still wrong to make the sled run the battery run out of power to begin with?
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
Time to get it charged and then test the charging circuit with a multi-meter to look for that 13 VDC when running at 3000 RPM. 6 volts will spark, when shorted. Shorting is a poor measurement when your looking for 12 volts. By the way, sparking is an indication of a short. You need to be careful with wiries that are energized. You could have blown a fuse, depending on what you shorted out.
Charge it with your charger at the lowest possible setting. It is better than not charging it at all.
Charge it with your charger at the lowest possible setting. It is better than not charging it at all.
tttario
Expert
Yamahammer485 said:
If you were running and it slowly started dying you have a problem with your charging system for sure. Just like blowing the alternator on a car, you can limp it for a bit on the battery but not long.
If you can get 12V on the jumper leads with it off and 14V @ 5000 RPM (charging) like Len said, then I would check the resistance of your stator. You'll need a good meter for this (Fluke). The three white wire attached to your voltage regulator in the front nose of the sled go back to your stator. Disconnect them and measure the resistance between the center wire and each side. Positive lead in the center and neg lead to one side, then the other side. Should be 0.19-0.24 ohms each.
Good Luck.
Yamahammer485
TY 4 Stroke Guru
tttario said:
Thank you
Will the sled run while checking the resistance?, im sure it wont so I should check it with the ignition turned on.
Also, just another update. Last night, went totally over the sled and made sure all the connectors were fully clipped in, like for the voltage regulator and it turns out that the clip with the white wires wasnt 100% clipped in, meaning it would make a "click" sound of you pushed more (only 1mm). So clipped that back in and made sure every connection was good, and they were, no wires were pulled out of connections, etc..
There is no reset lets say, to the computer if the clip was unclipped then put back in, like I wouldnt have to disconnect then recoonect the battery would I?
Now to the fuses, both 10A (red ones) under the airbox were perfect and same with that large green one. The other fusebox near the steering shaft was also fine.
After checking all this, ran the sled and no code for about a minute at idle, then the code flashed again.
Now im stuck, I really do think its the charging system. Going to test it tonight!
tttario
Expert
Yamahammer485 said:
Just leave the key off. Your checking resistance not voltage (horseshoe symbol). Those 3 white wires tie directly to your stator coil. You are basically checking that the coil has not "open circuited" which would cause it to not charge anything. You need to make sure that the coil has a low resistance (0.19-0.24 is spec) so it can pass power. If this is good I bet it was that loose clip. A low battery will drag down the system and will have a hard time charging and you got the code again.
Go buy a Optimate 3. There $69 at Royal. It comes with an attachment to permanently connect to your battery and has a quick connect that you can place right beside your boost wires. Makes it easy to charge afterwards. The 2A auto charger you have is no good. If your battery is dead or real low you need a high charge rate and a good float charge to revive the battery, the optimate automatically reads your battery and charges appropriately.
Cheers.
Yamahammer485
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Sounds good, Ill try that!
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
Then once the battery is charged, test the voltage at the battery terminals or jumper cables for > 13VDC at 3000 RPM. Until you do this, you are guessing about whether or not it is charging. Why test the stator, if it is charging? (e.g. Maybe the loose connector was the problem. But, it has left you with a discharged battery.)
By the way, to test the stator, you have to unplug it from the wiring harness. (That means the sled is NOT running.) Whenever you are looking for a reading in OHMs, the sled is off and the component you are testing is isolated/unplugged from the harness.
By the way, to test the stator, you have to unplug it from the wiring harness. (That means the sled is NOT running.) Whenever you are looking for a reading in OHMs, the sled is off and the component you are testing is isolated/unplugged from the harness.
tttario
Expert
Len Todd said:
The stator test was for after the 1. battery voltage test 2. charge voltage test to see if the stator is the culprit of the problem. I perfer to test the charge system @ 5000 RPM to see 13.8-14VDC. I've seen a couple cheap Mastercraft DMM's read 13.0VDC on a fully charged battery that I read 12.8VDC on my Fluke. A perfect battery should sit a @ 12.8VDC.
I am not argueing with you Len, your a tech and understand alot more on these things than I do I am sure. Just wanted to explain myself better so as too help Yamahammer, ecspecially since he lives 1/2 hour away from me.
Cheers.
