Cracked skid rails

Mooseman · Dec 22, 2012

This will teach me to not wait until now to do maintenance on my sled. Bring it in the garage for an oil and filter change, chaincase oil change, replace one of the ballasts for my HID's, then go to lube the skid and I find this... This is the mounting point for the front shock wheels. The only thing I can think of that would cause this is a direct hard hit to break both rails. Anybody else get something similar? Before anybody asks, the wheels are original, not oversized or anything and the low snow wheels are drilled low in the rail so that's not it.

Anybody think that this can be welded? I'd probably get it reinforced at the same time by adding extra material on top of it, similar to what I have seen for the rear of MTX's.

And I thought that I would be riding on Christmas day. Seems like something always happens just before Christmas and I won't be able to get things fixed :o|

BombaPolaYama · Dec 22, 2012

That's a nasty looking break - would have to be reinforced I'd say. I remember having a Ski-doo Formula S break like that and the welding alone wouldn't work. Too bad you're missing some early season riding - not enough snow here and now it is raining!

Mooseman · Dec 23, 2012

Yeah, and this was after I had just finished swapping the engine in my son's Doo for the fourth or fifth time (I've lost count) and thought to myself I won't have much to do on mine :-(

I think I found a local shop that should be able to weld it, just the holidays that I'll have to work around with. At worse, I found somebody that's selling parts off an MP in Orillia ON but he doesn't ship so I'd have to go on a road trip and I'm sure it won't be cheap. I'll try calling him later today. New, the rails are $200US each.

Come to think of it, last season was pretty rough with little snow and hard packed icy conditions and I'm no lightweight. The slides are in great condition though with my Doo wheels. If I get it fixed, I'd probably have to remove the low snow wheels there and put in Excell wheels.

karl · Dec 23, 2012

pretty serious flexing going on to fatigue the rail like that. probably developed over time, maybe due to suspension bushing wear/slop allowing flexing of the whole skid. bummer....

Mooseman · Dec 27, 2012

Well, now I know why my rails broke :-( Seems to be a common problem for Phazers in the first year and I believe they share some of the same parts for the suspension arm:
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... highlight=

Hopefully the shop will be able to weld them up and reinforce it. If not, I've got a line on a skid a couple of hours away. Won't know how much he wants for it until tomorrow evening.

karl · Dec 29, 2012

Mooseman that looks like some pretty serious repair work. Not sure if it is the same issue reported by phazer owners. I think their issue was mainly the link. The fatigue looks like it is caused by side to side flex/movement. The front of the skid takes all the side pressure when the sled is turning, particularly on hard packed trails. Good luck with the repairs, I am sure a competent welder can do most if not all the repair. The aluminum rails will be the sketchy part of the repair and probably the most challenging to get right.

Mooseman · Dec 29, 2012

I wouldn't be surprised if it was the hard packed icy conditions that caused this. It was rough all last season.

I got the parts welded up and it was done well. The aluminum rails don't even look welded and he said they should be as good as new as he welded completely through. He said that the link arm was bent probably before it broke because when he put the pieces together, it was crooked. He jigged it up with the shafts to bring it back straight. The short shaft was bent so I exchanged it with the rear one that was unaffected. I was able to straighten the bent shaft with my shop press to be useable. Unfortunately, no pictures. Too much in a hurry to get it together and enjoy all this snow! I'll try and get some later.

Went for a ride yesterday, riding two-up,checked it after, all good.

edit: Looking at the Phazer link arms and the breaks look the same as mine, even the Z patterned one.

CLARS2006 · Dec 31, 2012

Same thing here my VL has cracks on the rails as well as the H arm near the Upper Front Shock Mount. Last ride of the season we got some air and came down hard. Welded the arm and braced the rail near the cracks. Fingers crossed for the winter.

Mooseman · Jan 1, 2013

I would get those welded by a competent welder. I did and he did such a good job, he's confident it's just like new.

After getting mine done and riding two-up for a good while, all's good.

Mooseman · Jan 5, 2013

Dammit!

Well, my season is really off to a bad start and we have a lot of snow for once that I won't be able to enjoy. I checked my suspension. The rails are starting to crack again but are not completely broken off yet. Just the front part of the cracks have redeveloped but I estimate that they will fail again eventually. Another thing, my front shock of broken, which could have contributed to the rails cracking again. The shock can be moved within the spring back and forth, as if the rod is broken in the tube. My reinforced suspension H arm is still in one piece.

Here's my dilemma. I have a line on a VL skid just north of Montreal, which is about 2 hours from here. Problem is that I have the MP with different skid specs.
The VL has 25mm gas cell shocks while the MP has 36mm high-pressure gas shocks
The Lite has rear suspension travel of 11.5 (292mm). The MP has 12.3" (312mm)

Will I be losing a lot if I go with the lower spec'd VL skid? I also know of an MP being dismantled but it's farther away in Barrie, ON, which is a 5 hour drive (he doesn't ship). It may also be more expensive since this is a parts dealer specializing in Yamaha 4 strokes. Tomorrow I'll be calling both to get prices.

Oh, and I can't get my sled in the garage right now because it is occupied by my son's dead Ski-Doo, waiting for a rebuilt engine (5th time). And I just made the 6000 Km mark tonight until I saw the damage.

BombaPolaYama · Jan 5, 2013

Why not just buy the VL skid and strip it down and just use the rails and rebuild it with your better shocks. In any case the skids could even be the same except for the shocks and springs so it might work as is with your shocks. You could check the part #'s for comparison.
Strange that a parts dealer won't ship.

Mooseman · Jan 5, 2013

Here's the skinny. The guy in Montreal with the VL skid wants $500. The dealer in Barrie wants $450 for the MP skid (go figure).

Checking the differences, I may have only 2500NMM torsion springs in my MP. VL's have 3000NMM springs. I assume this is because the first MP's were single rider with the second seat as optional, and possibly the bigger spring to go with it. Parts listing shows the 3000NMM spring as optional on the MP but the VL just shows 3000NMM although with two different part numbers even though they are the same rate.

Anyhow, I need the bigger springs since I am heavy on my own (300lbs) and I do occasionally have my wife riding with me since I do have the passenger seat. Maybe the front spring is also beefier on the VL too. On top of that, we'll be able to use the MP springs on my son's Phazer since he's riding low with the springs he's got now.

So I'll be heading to Montreal tomorrow to pick it up. This will also be a good comparison between the VL and MP suspensions.

Mooseman · Jan 11, 2013

I did get the VL skid in this week. Apart from the difference in shocks, the other difference is two less sets of wheels. I did transfer my 135mm Doo wheels over since the slides on my old skid did last over 5000km and still going.

Here's the damage on my old skid. I have a feeling that the shock blew because the straps weren't doing their job even though they were in the shortest hole position. The constant pounding of the shock piston on the top of the cylinder is probably what destroyed it. I also noticed that the VL's skid's straps weren't tight at all even though they were also at the first hole. So I drilled a new hole in the straps.

Do straps stretch? Should they be replaced even before they break?

goby · Apr 6, 2013

7.5" extensions... Found this today when I was securing the sled on the trailer, will do some reinforcements during the summer

Mooseman · Apr 6, 2013

Do you think that the added skid length had anything to do with it? It should be fixable and reinforced by sandwiching an additional piece.

Cracked skid rails

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