• We are no longer supporting TapaTalk as a mobile app for our sites. The TapaTalk App has many issues with speed on our server as well as security holes that leave us vulnerable to attacks and spammers.

Why not tube frame sled????

couch

Expert
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
430
Location
Newfoundland
Why are sleds different than bikes, quads, side x sides? Why the mish-mash of frame components in sleds - some use cast aluminium, bent aluminium, some extrusions, some carbon tubes, some steel, and so on? Don't see the same type of mixed materials on other rec products.

Seems to me that a properly designed tube frame is stronger and lighter than all the various bits & pieces all of the OEMs use. Why not a decent factory tube frame with SMC to cover the tunnel & engine bay?

Can't be any more expensive to wield up quad or side x side frame than a sled - price points are similar and lots of these machines get abused every bit as much as sleds!

The custom tube builds seem to back up the lighter & stronger argument ... cost for an OEM should be substantially lower given economy of scale and availability of automated tube formers and wielding robots.

Just wondering???????
 

Often wondered this myself, especialy being a tube bender guy myself. Some of the costom tube chassis that guys are building are prety damn cool looking.
 
Redline revolt and before that the yamaha sno-scoot/sport.
 

Attachments

  • Revolt%20-%20Early%20Production%203.jpg
    Revolt%20-%20Early%20Production%203.jpg
    30.7 KB · Views: 669
  • imagesCA0YV6JX.jpg
    imagesCA0YV6JX.jpg
    12.4 KB · Views: 568
Yeah... too bad most never saw a running engine. Wasn't there an issue with the electronics?
 
I don''t now for sure, I've wondered about it from time to time. I think it is due to sheet aluminum being quicker and easier for an OEM to build a chassis out of. Any time you can do stampings it is the cheapest way to construct things. The aluminum castings some of the OEM's are using now are likely lighter than steel tubing. The custom tube sleds use chromoly tubing which is a lot more expensive than plain steel tubing that most ATV and side by side frames are made out of.

The custom tube sled frames guys build are probably due to tubing being available and easier to work with than trying to form and bend all the parts out of sheet goods.

If an OEM goes with a tube frame they then have to skin it. That's an extra step when it comes to a tunnel and areas around the bulkhead. Plus, unlike ATV's and dirt bikes, running sleds in deep, dry snow in cold conditions have fine snow getting into everything. The dirt bike track conversions suffer from snow getting into the air box unless additional parts are added.

It probably just boils down to the OEM's being set up and trained to build sleds in a certain way and to make a drastic change would cost a bunch of money. The old, mid 80's Ski-doo Formula sleds used to use a tube frame bulkhead. They were a much heavier sled than a comparable Indy or Yamaha Exciter.
 
devinzz1 said:
why didnt redline catch on? ive watched them in the old sledneck vids and it was a dream sled for a while.
In 1999 when this redline was first seen it was pretty far ahead of the OEMs(folks who built it also design the first prototype quadracer 250 in the 1980s for suzuki,IMSA gt race cars and off-road trophy trucks).But money problems(raising funds,reliabilty issues with there motor designs,and poor reviews(SNOWTECH had a test model blow its motor on a test ride,also said the rear suspension was terrible).By 2002 the written was on the wall as doo,cat and yamaha unleashed there game changing sleds(RX-1,REV,Firecat).Nice design,just wasn,t to be.To my knowledge FAST still builds BLADES with doo 800ETECs in them but in very small numbers(single digits).
 
I am still a fan of the aluminum die cast front frame for the apex. Its very durable and super light with little to no flex in it. I have had one bare in my hands and was amazed at the weight. The heft of the apex isnt coming from the die cast frame or aluminum tunnel, its coming from all the steel plates, bolts, wiring, accessories, battery, seat, suspension, steering, etc.
 
biffdotorg said:
bottlerocket said:
Tubing is heavy!

Yup, it is. And that is why the upright tubes on the Pro-RMK are Carbon Fiber. Sounds expensive.

Everything on sleds is getting more $$.
The Redline Revolt looks like it was very light especially if coli overs were ditched in favour of floats .... curious as to the weight compared to newest generation of sleds. Consider that the old scoot / sports have been beat on for 20+ years and generally abused by adult riders (great vid on snowest with about a dozen + scoots racing around a track derby style) and the frames still held up!


Yes chromoly is more expensive but so are most of the other elements ... as for skinning tunnel / engine compartment / etc. smc (thermo molder plastic would be great and would likely have fewer icing issues and is cheaper than aluminium. All of the high strength bolts and fasteners used to hold all of the components together add weight and production cost as well. Would be interesting to see a comparison of new gen sleds broken down by component to see exactly where the weight is.
 
I agree with AKrider. I think it truly boils down to cost of production time. Generally speaking laser cutting & bending metals is far cheaper to manufacture in bulk than tube design that requires more labor & weld time.

As another example. In the summer time I enjoy jet ski riding. Years ago I designed a jet ski stand for myself, it was a boxed tube/ welded design that required a lot of labor time & welding especially when trying to fulfill orders. Cut a long story short they became so popular amongst todays riders, pro. rider circuit, companies wanting personalized stands like Peligroso Tequila, Red Bull, Monster Energy & dealers I had to figure out a way to mass produce yet retain the strength of boxed while maintaining the quality & design. I came up with this (pics).

They're designed for today's stand up & sit down models. Pictures illustrate both boxed tube & laser cut design which is manufactured out of flat stock that is then formed into shape.

With the laser cut design I can make 10 stands in an hour, with the boxed tube I can make one stand in an hour - significant difference. Now multiply that by the amount of sleds manufacturers are making.
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2013-02-05 at 8.15.50 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2013-02-05 at 8.15.50 PM.png
    423 KB · Views: 425
  • Screen Shot 2013-02-05 at 8.15.35 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2013-02-05 at 8.15.35 PM.png
    278.7 KB · Views: 361
  • Screen Shot 2013-02-05 at 8.15.00 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2013-02-05 at 8.15.00 PM.png
    245.6 KB · Views: 366
  • Screen Shot 2013-02-05 at 8.15.17 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2013-02-05 at 8.15.17 PM.png
    363.4 KB · Views: 356
Its also a matter of getting everything in proper position.When you weld any type of box shape out of tubing you get pulling and may not end up with a box when done.Aluminum tubing is even worse than moly or steel for this.It can be done but I believe only by hand and no where near fast enough for production.
 


Back
Top