2016 Yamaha Sidewinder

[Heritage]

Yamaha never knew how to fuel inject a 2-stroke sled . they were years behind back then.
funny because there outboards are the most modern technology.

I wouldn't go that far.....in fact...I believe the 1977 SRX had fuel injection...NO??

 

[Heritage]

Also...those late 80's early 90's fuelie sleds had nothing but problems (Indy 500, Indy RXL, Cat zr580, and Ski-doo MXZ 521)...in fact All but cat.. quit making fuel injected sleds for almost 10 years

 

[tator]

i want the name on a new sled with a hmmmmmm 1200 4 cylinder, 4 stroke. as long as w are wishing.

 

[katkiller]

I wouldn't go that far.....in fact...I believe the 1977 SRX had fuel injection...NO??

that old as hell corvette had fuel injection too,i think your grasping for straws. lol
I just don't understand why Yamaha is so far back in the weeds most years.
they don't listen to snowmobile customers like they want to admit!

p.s. they won't get any more of my money until they wakeup!!!!!!

 

[Heritage]

that old as hell corvette had fuel injection too,i think your grasping for straws. lol
I just don't understand why Yamaha is so far back in the weeds most years.
they don't listen to snowmobile customers like they want to admit!

p.s. they won't get any more of my money until they wakeup!!!!!!

I disagree with your statement completely...I love my apex...and so do many other people here...yamaha isn't going to make two strokes snowmobiles..so your argument is not valid...perhaps u should try a different brand that, that suits your needs and wants better....yamaha...may not be for you.

 

[tator]

never know though. i would belive that yamaha never makes a 2 stroke snowmobile again but they could and do have the technology for the motor. make one of the best 2 stroke boat motors. but that is only 2 motors in the whole lineup. so it seems they are trending away there too. i have switched sleds with great running 600 srx and for me it was just a good reminder. NEVER GOING 2 STROKE AGAIN! as on FI i have never had or herd of trouble with yamaha's FI on any 4 stroke besides relays freezing. have buddies with articcats and have CDI box troubles. 06 and newer.

 

[katkiller]

Yamaha does make a great sled the apex , but they must think all people want is bold new grafix. there is no reason that sled has to weigh so much,I had a 06 apex gt turned in to a 162 mountain that only weighed 600lbs. full of gas.
I think they can go a lot lighter like ski-doo 4 strokes .I'm not a ski-doo fan but they stay competitive every year with 2 and 4 strokes.

 

[Heritage]

Yamaha does make a great sled the apex , but they must think all people want is bold new grafix. there is no reason that sled has to weigh so much,I had a 06 apex gt turned in to a 162 mountain that only weighed 600lbs. full of gas.
I think they can go a lot lighter like ski-doo 4 strokes .I'm not a ski-doo fan but they stay competitive every year with 2 and 4 strokes.

They did...it's called the viper...it's within a couple of lbs of the doo 1200...lighter isn't always better...for trail riding...weight doesn't matter...for powder/off trail it does...that's what the viper platform does...it bridges that gap...and gives u a lightweight platform to begin with (you can do what u want...turbo etc)...a little weigh loss is always good...but rather see yamaha work on suspension development...the engines(and yes the fuel injection ), clutching, fit and finish are excellent. ....I love the eps...and the exup works...the mid range pull on my xtx is much harder than on my 07 attak...yamaha may not be perfect...but neither is any of the other brands...they all have their faults and flaws...I will take reliability over a "lightweight sled" with a throw away 2 stroke motor anyday

 

[wavemaster]

Yamaha does make a great sled the apex , but they must think all people want is bold new grafix. there is no reason that sled has to weigh so much,I had a 06 apex gt turned in to a 162 mountain that only weighed 600lbs. full of gas.
I think they can go a lot lighter like ski-doo 4 strokes .I'm not a ski-doo fan but they stay competitive every year with 2 and 4 strokes.

When you make a 10-15K mile disposable sled you can really go cheap and light in a lot of areas. When you build a sled that will go 100,000 miles you can't build so cheap. Yamaha could lower weight while still maintaining structural quality but it would require a lot more exotic materials (titanium, carbon fiber etc.) and the cost would go up a lot.

I am at a point where quality and longevity is more important than max hp/weight. There will always be wants and needs that get and don't get met, I think yamaha (when providing a motor that will go over 100k) also had to provide a much more substantial frame and drivetrain to go with it. Unfortunately "substantial" in this case means weight.

 

[katkiller]

When you make a 10-15K mile disposable sled you can really go cheap and light in a lot of areas. When you build a sled that will go 100,000 miles you can't build so cheap. Yamaha could lower weight while still maintaining structural quality but it would require a lot more exotic materials (titanium, carbon fiber etc.) and the cost would go up a lot.

I am at a point where quality and longevity is more important than max hp/weight. There will always be wants and needs that get and don't get met, I think yamaha (when providing a motor that will go over 100k) also had to provide a much more substantial frame and drivetrain to go with it. Unfortunately "substantial" in this case means weight.

send me a pic of your vipers when and if they make 100,00 mi. I should get a nice pic of the engine!!!!lol

 

[wavemaster]

send me a pic of your vipers when and if they make 100,00 mi. I should get a nice pic of the engine!!!!lol

And send me a picture of ANY doo or popo with the same. ROFLMAO. I have never owned a sled beyond 20k miles and I don't see that changing now. The difference is my yamahas with 20k on them are still running and salable.

So you don't think there would be any difference in weight between a disposable sled and one that will go 100K miles? Or does the reliability not matter to you? I am sure if the industry told yamaha to make a disposable 15,000 mile sled I am sure they could.

In the old days when we could do the 2stroke rebuild in a morning before riding for a couple hundred bucks it wasn't so bad. Now it takes a weekend and $500.00-$1,500.00 to do it. TCO is way lower on the 4stroke. A guy I ride with blew up his 2012 Doo 800 back country last week and will be without it for a couple weeks and be out about 1500.00 to get it back. I told him to look on the bright side, at least he got almost 6000 miles on it before it blew and it is really light.

But seriously, why wait for Yamaha to build a cheap disposable sled?

I think Ski-Doo should make the ultimate sled;
How about a 2smoke that doesn't smell?
Doesn't need 50.00/gal oil to run,
Can run on normal gas.
Can be started with a key.
Will last more than 10,000 miles
Get good mileage.
Can go backwards.
Doesn't lose 75% of its resale value after hitting 5k miles.
And be "Light as a feather" like the weightless sleds they make now.

Of coarse we all know that can't and won't happen, just like yamaha can't make a 4stroke sled that is capable of 100k "light as a feather".

And your comment above, "I think they (yamaha) can go a lot lighter like ski-doo 4 strokes" The 2015 renegade 4 stroke dry is 518lbs. That is heavier than the new Viper @ 505 and and only slightly less than a nytro and a whole lot less power. When you ask for apples to apples, skidoo has the same struggles - no magic.

 

[Redtailshark]

I agree with you wavemaster.

My questions is this: Why on earth is Ski Doo #1 in sales? You would think blowing motors and being stranded would get old after awhile. Never mind the money factor.

All I can think of is that the demand for a lightweight product outweighs the demand for reliability.

Doesn't make sense to me, but the market and sales numbers speak for themselves. I would prefer reliability, but your average customer must not.

In effect, in a business sense.....shame in Yamaha for not making a sled that the majority of customers want.

In a reputation sense.....way to go Yamaha for continuing to build great sleds despite the demand for disposable ones.

It seems Yamaha is not into snowmobiles to make money, but to build a good reputation?

Reliable sleds have still not caught on to the broad market even after all these years......

 

[4strokeluvr111]

In effect, in a business sense.....shame in Yamaha for not making a sled that the majority of customers want.

What if their business plan doesn't want them to do this? I wish i could see their books on the 4S sleds they have sold....the ROI must be stupid high!

 

[wavemaster]

They have always had 40% of the market. A lot of it is dealers and availability. The yamaha 4 stroke revolution is only a decade old. Upfront cost plays a role as well I'm sure. I don't know "penny wise, pound stupid"?

To me reliability is way more important and has been since 2003 (my last year on a 2 stroke).

I don't believe it is a right or wrong scenario, I think too each his own. My main peeve is this notion that yamahas are heavy and doos are light. When you compare apples to apples they are not off that much, except skidoo REALLY lacks in power when you are comparing apples to apples.

When they point to a disposable, stripped down no reverse no electric start etc. and say there, yamaha should be like that - I don't agree.

 

[Redtailshark]

I hear ya.

To 4strokelvr111, I bet their ROI is very high because they overlap parts and models for many years. Brand new ground up models do not appear too often.

Aside from the 4stroke revolution, yamaha 2 strokes have always been very reliable. I've seen SRXs and red tops close to 20,000 miles on the original motor. That's why I say they've always been reliable and that never caught on.