Barn of Parts Driveshaft Saver....Bearing Lock

[Firecatdude]

I had new shaft and new bearing snk bench tested exactly like bop did .001” difference in fit and started to lock down at 60lbs. I’m taking apart this weekend to see if spun give you updates.

Any updates on this? Didn’t see any unless I missed it.

 

[Firecatdude]

View attachment 157500 Final install at 45 pounds.

I think that you have found the perfect amount for how far to install driveshaft saver. Here is a pic of my old shaft. You can see the fingers start right where the bearing inner ring contact ends were it wore down the shaft.

 

[Rtbo]

I installed a black diamond driveshaft last year with new SKF bearing and BOP wedge. Had to pull track this year and saw the bearing spun. I had to tap the bearing on the shaft when new and now it just slid off. I put a new bearing on to test the wedge and I had a 2’ breaker bar on it to get it snug. I don’t think I had the wedge tight enough the first time obviously, put I tightened it pretty good. It seems like the black diamond shafts are stronger than stock and should be tightened more.

 

[Turboflash]

View attachment 158332 View attachment 158333 View attachment 158333 View attachment 158332 I installed a black diamond driveshaft last year with new SKF bearing and BOP wedge. Had to pull track this year and saw the bearing spun. I had to tap the bearing on the shaft when new and now it just slid off. I put a new bearing on to test the wedge and I had a 2’ breaker bar on it to get it snug. I don’t think I had the wedge tight enough the first time obviously, put I tightened it pretty good. It seems like the black diamond shafts are stronger than stock and should be tightened more.

Add green loctite sleeve retainer with BOP wedge and tighten to 50 ft.lbs.

 

[SnowCatRider]

View attachment 158332 View attachment 158333 View attachment 158333 View attachment 158332 I installed a black diamond driveshaft last year with new SKF bearing and BOP wedge. Had to pull track this year and saw the bearing spun. I had to tap the bearing on the shaft when new and now it just slid off. I put a new bearing on to test the wedge and I had a 2’ breaker bar on it to get it snug. I don’t think I had the wedge tight enough the first time obviously, put I tightened it pretty good. It seems like the black diamond shafts are stronger than stock and should be tightened more.

I too just got a Black diamond shaft. I believe they are the stock driveshaft with some of the middle of the lugs machined downed to save some weight. I came to this conclusion after speaking on the phone to Black diamond.

 

[Sevey]

Are those black diamond shafts made out of steel or aluminum?

MS

 

[Rtbo]

The one I got was steel. If they are arctic cat driveshafts, I got a good one (bearing was tight)

 

[jonlafon1]

View attachment 158330

I think that you have found the perfect amount for how far to install driveshaft saver. Here is a pic of my old shaft. You can see the fingers start right where the bearing inner ring contact ends were it wore down the shaft.

I was wondering if someone would do just what you did in your pic. As I felt that was the"spot"

 

[FrozenTows4]

View attachment 158330

I think that you have found the perfect amount for how far to install driveshaft saver. Here is a pic of my old shaft. You can see the fingers start right where the bearing inner ring contact ends were it wore down the shaft.

This wedge appears to be the later production run? Mine is the little shorter first run, and needs to be installed flush, to get the shaft to expand bearing center.
Good idea to double check for yourself.
I too did this same measurement. But you sir had the presents of mind to take a picture and share!
Nicely done!

 

[jonlafon1]

Back to the top on this subject as I feel I may have found another issue and or another cause for shaft wear. So I purchase a 21 Cat 8000 for the other half. So we pick it up (No studs no nothing done to it stock right from dealer)and run it for 180 miles. I break it open and find the shaft is spun pretty bad already in 180 miles! WTF. SO let me back up for a month. A buddy brings me a used 6000 cat he picks up with 1500 miles on it. I take it apart and do some checking. The shaft is toast. I’m like wow. 1500 miles. So we put a new bearing in and assemble it and run it on a stand. The whole brake assembly is wobbling while running the sled. Like way to much and it’s not right. So we’re thinking the pad/caliper is hung up and the brake is jacked up( we cant get the calipers to go back in even after draining fluid). So he ordered a USED brake . BUT BEFORE we put it on we run the sled on the stand with no brake pads in it ( the original brake assembly) And guess what the brake assembly is wobbling to beat the band. So that tells me the assembly is jacked up OR we put it together wrong and the bearing isn’t seated on the shaft or whatever. So we put the USED brake on and no wobble no nothing with out pads and afterwards with the BOP wedge installed at 50LBS. Now both times the bearing was seated in the caliper and the rotor had plenty of play and both holding/snap rings were seated and good to go.. SO WHY is the brake wobbling while the track is running with one brake and not with the other?

Okay now back to the 180 mile sled that has a shaft with wear.. I go to work on this sled really taking my time and doing mods/studding replacing junk bearing and installing BOP wedge among other things.. Really going through this sled with 180 miles.. I pull caliper while the skid is out of the sled > so no tension on the drive shaft.. I install SKF bearing on shaft and BOP wedge good rotor slop after words.. I run it on the stand and its wobbling! I split the caliper and check everything again and reinstall bearing and brake making sure everything is seated and right.. I run it again and the whole assembly is wobbling.. WTF is going on with these brakes? No way the shaft/bearing has a chance with the brake wobbling while the track is spinning. This two sleds that have done this. First one we put a used brake on and it does not wobble.. The new sled I'm working on is going to get another brake assembly on and see what happens.. Real easy test for someone bored and no snow take your brake pads out and run the sled on a stand and see if it wobbles. You will notice right away the whole brake assembly will wobble or not. > if it does wobble your shaft stands no chance!!! No way this is good or right IMO.. I personally think its a huge factor for the shaft wear? How can a sled with 180 miles on it have shaft wear? Well I know for a fact its the brake OR THE shaft is totally jacked up and way out of true OR the brake assembly was installed/bearing seated incorrectly from the factory. I took it off two times and reinstalled it being VERY conscious that the bearing is seated properly on the drive shaft.
Sorry for long read but this is important! Take you brake pads out and run your sled on stand and WATCH.. I'm guessing the ones that wobble have a shaft that is worn heavily. I'm curious what a NEW sled with no miles on it does??? Not saying this is every sled.

 

[KnappAttack]

When you tighten the wedge, it is critical to tighten it down slowly and in stages as you rotate the track and shaft to normalize the bearing on the shaft or it WILL wobble the whole chassis.

Tighten the wedge last, and little by little as you tighten the bolt down with the suspension in the sled while rotating the secondary or track, as the shaft expands on to the bearing it will not bind the bearing on the shaft crooked, if you fail to normalize the bearing on the shaft this way slowly, it could end up crocked on the shaft while lightning it down. If it tightens down crooked it will wobble the brake housing and chassis and put bind on the bearing as it goes round and round.

Crooked bearing on the shaft and it will wobble and flex the chassis every time.

 

[jonlafon1]

When you tighten the wedge, it is critical to tighten it down slowly and in stages as you rotate the track and shaft to normalize the bearing on the shaft or it WILL wobble the whole chassis.

Tighten the wedge last, and little by little as you tighten the bolt down with the suspension in the sled while rotating the secondary or track, as the shaft expands on to the bearing it will not bind the bearing on the shaft crooked, if you fail to normalize the bearing on the shaft this way slowly, it could end up crocked on the shaft while lightning it down. If it tightens down crooked it will wobble the brake housing and chassis and put bind on the bearing as it goes round and round.

Crooked bearing on the shaft and it will wobble and flex the chassis every time.

Thanks for reply Mike. The 6000 sled had no wedge installed until AFTER everything was complete.. It wobbled with one assembly and not with another.. I understand your point totally and feel its possible they are assembled incorrectly from factory? .. 180 miles on UNTOUCHED new sled (no wedge)and the shaft is worn down, and the brake wobbles ? I kept thinking the same thing your saying that the bearing is not seated correctly but I just don't see it on this new sled with 180 miles. I pulled it 2 times and installed it crooked or not seated both times? How could the snap ring go on outside the rotor if bearing is not seated on the shaft?. 3 bolts go in smooth on back side of tunnel and the rotor has good play with and without wedge installed. The bearing is in the brake housing Flush as the ring holding it in sits perfect.
SOMETHING is wrong with some of the brake assemblies. the casting where the bearing sits in is OFF. I'm almost certain.

 

[jonlafon1]

Time for the Calipers to check "things".
Tomorrow I have a used brake coming. And another set of eyes. Got 2500 miles on a new shaft that looks PERFECT at 270 HP.. A sled with 150 Hp and 180 miles and the shaft is worn?? Something is not adding up

 

[KnappAttack]

Time for the Calipers to check "things".
Tomorrow I have a used brake coming. And another set of eyes. Got 2500 miles on a new shaft that looks PERFECT at 270 HP.. A sled with 150 Hp and 180 miles and the shaft is worn?? Something is not adding up

HP has zero effect on the shaft to bearing fit, its the amount the shaft spins inside the bearing is all, don't overthink it, however I'd imagine a machine that has sat outside with thick grease in the bearing would make it easier to spin on the shaft that say a machine that sits in a heated garage with pre-warmed grease too. Not to mention a poor slip fit tolerance.

The real issue here is poor engineering on Cats part thinking no bearing lock is needed from the bearing to the shaft. Funny that Ski-Doo did it first and did it right, and Cat couldn't copy what they did with a bearing pressed on the shaft and the slip part being the bearing into the housing with a much tighter and perfect tolerance.

 

[RAMSOMAIR]

I just can’t believe there isn’t a manufacturer out there that won’t build the bearing with a lock collar on the inner race like on Apex?