Michigan Trail Signage CHANGES!!

[Irv]

Got my MSA mag today , Very disappointed in the decision to remove several important signs from the trail .
Deer crossing
Narrow trail
bridge ahead
Winding trail (s curve ) sign
ALL CHEVRON"S
two way traffic
Narrow Bridge


I believe this makes it inherently more dangerous to ride all together.
Anyone thinking this is a great idea has never ridden a snowmobile .
It will change the way we ride but also, thee speed racers shouldn't cause the whole snowmobiling population of Michigan to be less safe.
I also heard the reasoning for this is to keep anyone from being liable in the case of a corner not being signed properly under the previous rules.

Not excited at all why take down signs and throw them away to "MAKE US SAFER" is what the article in MSA said.

I love the sport but this is disturbing why pay 45 dollars for a trail permit and another 65 for registration just so they can make our trails more primitive. What a crock of crap .
Might be the last nail in the coffin for me.
I don't ride over my head as I ride near the back of my group. But corners will still be signed but NO CURVES "any change in directions of less than 90 degrees".

Not good at all imo, here in Ontario we are going the other way as far as signage and safety go.

Not sure who made the decisions you're talking about but it is definitely a step backwards and then some imo

Really? I kinda thought our signing had been getting worse over the years, seamed trails were better marked when I was younger.

Sounds like it is not a level playing field throughout the trail system, which is a surprise to me as I thought it was a standard all clubs had to follow?
http://www.ofsc.on.ca/plan-my-ride/trai ... signs.html

 

[yamahas]

Got my MSA mag today , Very disappointed in the decision to remove several important signs from the trail .
Deer crossing
Narrow trail
bridge ahead
Winding trail (s curve ) sign
ALL CHEVRON"S
two way traffic
Narrow Bridge


I believe this makes it inherently more dangerous to ride all together.
Anyone thinking this is a great idea has never ridden a snowmobile .
It will change the way we ride but also, thee speed racers shouldn't cause the whole snowmobiling population of Michigan to be less safe.
I also heard the reasoning for this is to keep anyone from being liable in the case of a corner not being signed properly under the previous rules.

Not excited at all why take down signs and throw them away to "MAKE US SAFER" is what the article in MSA said.

I love the sport but this is disturbing why pay 45 dollars for a trail permit and another 65 for registration just so they can make our trails more primitive. What a crock of crap .
Might be the last nail in the coffin for me.
I don't ride over my head as I ride near the back of my group. But corners will still be signed but NO CURVES "any change in directions of less than 90 degrees".

Not good at all imo, here in Ontario we are going the other way as far as signage and safety go.

Not sure who made the decisions you're talking about but it is definitely a step backwards and then some imo

Really? I kinda thought our signing had been getting worse over the years, seamed trails were better marked when I was younger.

Sounds like it is not a level playing field throughout the trail system, which is a surprise to me as I thought it was a standard all clubs had to follow?
http://www.ofsc.on.ca/plan-my-ride/trai ... signs.html

I believe there were some recent changes where the only want the right/left turn arrows when the corner is almost 90 degrees. Basically the arrows for a corner not a turn.

 

[Nytro0316]

This is crazy, I 'd rather have too many signs then not enough!

 

[driftbuster]

I've been riding in the UP for over 20 years and I have learned that the more chevrons preceeding a corner, the sharper the corner will be, and I can slow down appropriately. Now all corners will be marked the same, or not at all.

The theory is that because I won't be able to tell the really sharp corners from the mild ones I will slow way down for all.

Sounds good in theory, but my guess is that there will be many people who have not heard of the change in marking procedures and will blast through that first sharp curve thinking it will be easy. Hopefully no one dies cause of this.

 

[Nick1945]

I don't see any up side to this at all.
I'm willing to bet, there will be more accidents this year than last year.

I talked with some of the people from MSA, at the Shoot out Saturday, and like everything today, money and politics played a big part in this, and you see the results.

 

[sheetwright]

I would like to know how much they are short on funds to keep the signs or make them slightly better? Also know how many trail stickers and registration tags are bought in Michigan. Would give us an idea of how much more per rider they would want us to pay per sticker to keep us safe and alive??? All I know is if they put it out to a vote to say for example "would you pay $5 extra per sticker etc to keep or update signs would you pay"? compare to just yamking the plug on safety. complete bull

 

[Mazz]

I can totally understand the cost and politics of adding additional signage but, am I misunderstanding something, this sounds like just removal of signs that are already in place. If this is the case isn't that the act of spending time , money, and effort just to make the whole system worse? Would it not make more sense to maintain the excellent system that is already in place. If they think it will be Safer, which most of us agree it won't be, that's fine but I don't think upfront Cost can be part of the argument

 

[RobX-1]

I was at the Martin show and spoke to a MSA rep to voice my concern over this. They had a very nice display showing what signs were going away and which ones were new. They hope to be able to bring it the Novi show due to the amount of people that attend the show. The MSA rep did a nice job explaining the changes and did say the one sign they wished they were able to keep was the bridge signs. However, he did point out that in the rules book that clubs can put up a stop ahead and stop signs at bridges for those that get pretty bad. Chevrons around the curves will go away and only turns will be marked; something like 45-90 degree turns will have signage (turns=yes, curves=no). He did state that money savings was not a factor (had more to do with the consistency of the signage) because they added up the cost for all the signs that were going away that they spent in prior years and it amounted to $39,000. But, then when you factor in the cost for all the new signs they have to put up, they said it would be a wash. I still have my reservations about this and only time will tell if it was a good thing or not but one thing that was clear was that this was not just an MSA decision. Apparently, there were many other groups involved with this and have been discussing the change for the past several years. In other words, I'm not going to throw out the baby (ie. my MSA membership) with the bath water. About all we can do is have discussions like I had with them to voice our concerns and hope changes can come out of it. Considering how once things are enacted, whether or not that is a realistic expectation or not remains to be seen.

 

[Essarex]

If you read the MSA article this month, there is one statement in there that is the foundation for this action. The author could not help himself but to be honest about the subject, but at the same time, did not want to usher in an apocalypse.

He wrote "Sign it like a freeway, and people will ride it like a freeway"

Seasons are shorter. Fuel cost is up. New Sled prices are up. Disposable income is lower. The industry is in trouble. They NEED to attract a new demographic. This new market of riders are believed to be less tolerant of excessive speed.

Rock is correct when he said that step 2 will be the enforcement of speed limits. It will come, bet on it.

I don't know what I'll do. How do I ride a supercharged Apex below 55mph all day?

Signed,

F'ing Fed Up

 

[EnticerRider]

you hit the nail on the head .
Might be a dieing sport unless something changes.
No i don't mean add a speed limit


guy who wrote the arcticle must be an idiot.
He must not really realize how people ride.

 

[sheetwright]

I was at the Martin show and spoke to a MSA rep to voice my concern over this. They had a very nice display showing what signs were going away and which ones were new. They hope to be able to bring it the Novi show due to the amount of people that attend the show. The MSA rep did a nice job explaining the changes and did say the one sign they wished they were able to keep was the bridge signs. However, he did point out that in the rules book that clubs can put up a stop ahead and stop signs at bridges for those that get pretty bad. Chevrons around the curves will go away and only turns will be marked; something like 45-90 degree turns will have signage (turns=yes, curves=no). He did state that money savings was not a factor (had more to do with the consistency of the signage) because they added up the cost for all the signs that were going away that they spent in prior years and it amounted to $39,000. But, then when you factor in the cost for all the new signs they have to put up, they said it would be a wash. I still have my reservations about this and only time will tell if it was a good thing or not but one thing that was clear was that this was not just an MSA decision. Apparently, there were many other groups involved with this and have been discussing the change for the past several years. In other words, I'm not going to throw out the baby (ie. my MSA membership) with the bath water. About all we can do is have discussions like I had with them to voice our concerns and hope changes can come out of it. Considering how once things are enacted, whether or not that is a realistic expectation or not remains to be seen.

So basically if this articel is true http://www.munising.com/Snow/snowmobile-facts.html And the $39,000 figure is correct. Every registerd sled could give them .10 more each and we could have the old signs and the new signs? 390,000 registered sled ball park and they remove $39k in signs. Math is math and I will mail them my dime. send me the address

 

[Nick1945]

I was at the Martin show and spoke to a MSA rep to voice my concern over this. They had a very nice display showing what signs were going away and which ones were new. They hope to be able to bring it the Novi show due to the amount of people that attend the show. The MSA rep did a nice job explaining the changes and did say the one sign they wished they were able to keep was the bridge signs. However, he did point out that in the rules book that clubs can put up a stop ahead and stop signs at bridges for those that get pretty bad. Chevrons around the curves will go away and only turns will be marked; something like 45-90 degree turns will have signage (turns=yes, curves=no). He did state that money savings was not a factor (had more to do with the consistency of the signage) because they added up the cost for all the signs that were going away that they spent in prior years and it amounted to $39,000. But, then when you factor in the cost for all the new signs they have to put up, they said it would be a wash. I still have my reservations about this and only time will tell if it was a good thing or not but one thing that was clear was that this was not just an MSA decision. Apparently, there were many other groups involved with this and have been discussing the change for the past several years. In other words, I'm not going to throw out the baby (ie. my MSA membership) with the bath water. About all we can do is have discussions like I had with them to voice our concerns and hope changes can come out of it. Considering how once things are enacted, whether or not that is a realistic expectation or not remains to be seen.

So basically if this articel is true http://www.munising.com/Snow/snowmobile-facts.html And the $39,000 figure is correct. Every registerd sled could give them .10 more each and we could have the old signs and the new signs? 390,000 registered sled ball park and they remove $39k in signs. Math is math and I will mail them my dime. send me the address

MSA Link

http://www.msasnow.org/

 

[driftbuster]

Below is from the Michigan DNR:

MICHIGAN SNOWMOBILE FATALITY SUMMARY
2010/2011 SEASON: LOWEST SNOWMOBILE FATALITY COUNT IN LAST 20 YEARS.

Making the trails less safe is a mystery to me

 

[Sasquatch]

Same thing happened in Ontario. We had to remove a huge number of signs and follow the new guidline set out by the OFSC.

Liability is the reason why! Guy leaves the corner drunk and speeding kills himself and cripples his daughter Family sues the OFSC for millions because the signage said it was a 45 degree turn instead of a 90! Volunteer ran out of 90 signs so rather then leave it unmarked he put up the 45!

Signage became minimal after that! I love the signage in the Whiteshell in Manitoba. Best I've ever seen.

 

[RoyalBlue]

No Grooming

I would like to know how much they are short on funds to keep the signs or make them slightly better? Also know how many trail stickers and registration tags are bought in Michigan. Would give us an idea of how much more per rider they would want us to pay per sticker to keep us safe and alive??? All I know is if they put it out to a vote to say for example "would you pay $5 extra per sticker etc to keep or update signs would you pay"? compare to just yamking the plug on safety. complete bull

Michigan had no winter last year , cost savings on # 2 Diesel alone saved Lansing millions