no more studs ever

[Rockmeister]

I feel that the people that are against studs don't need them, and the people who want studs need them. It is al about where you live/ride. Some of you live in areas with snow while others (like me) ride where there is ice. Where there is ice there are studs, you need them to be SAFE.
I never had a problem crossing roads, it may be because you learn how. Sort of like some one from the south doesn't know how to drive in snow, people who never ride ice don't know how to ride with studs.

I think you nailed it on the head..

Saying you need to ban studs is liking sayin you need to ban carbide runners..

Just drive slower and you wont need carbide runners... LOL

Well put guys

 

[strangeland2]

Well even though studs killed my kitty (on a ty ride of all things to boot) I still dont think i ll drop studs completely. I definitely plan to check out the ice ripper tracks though.

 

[Sasquatch]

I could be wrong. I just didn't think my sleds had one up front. Never puntured one though and have studded every sled I've ever owned.

Yep every liquid sled I have owned has a front exchanger. Cat made the tunnel protector an exchanger and they work quite well. Polaris and Yamaha have and or are using running board exchangers. While I added a rear exchanger to my Warrior because of the light coming on to much in thin conditions and I blamed the running board exchangers for that. I do like the pack the running boards with snow to cross the lake aspect when the lake has no snow.

My biggest fear was putting a hole in the side exchangers but after four years and banging them over snow banks they have held up fine.

Back to studs!

As Slowpoke says those who hate studs should not use them. Those who like them should. I was on the fence. I could not see why I needed them. Then one year when it rained, froze again and snowed. I rethought my argument.

So I tried them and see the good. I can also see the bad. Same with without studs. I can see the good and the bad. I guess we all have to make our own decisions. People have to sort though the B.S. and get honest pro, con answers.

Put simply studs can take out your heat exchanger. Probably as often as your driveshaft can break or your chain or your jackshaft bearings, but it can happen. If you don't protect, ie give enough clearance protection they can chew up your tunnel, pipes, rear exchanger. You must also match your carbides to your studs. Studding the outside of your track will give you more traction. It will also increase your chances or tearing and ruining your track. Studding a track made for studs, basiclly one of a harder compound will help to prevent pull throughs. Under studding is harder on the track and studs as well. Over studding can give you steering problems.

After contemplating all this I bought a preholed track that is supposed to be compatible strength wise with 162 studs up the middle on a 136. I added protection to my rear exchanger and out I went. I found the protection I added was not enough and I touched the back exchanger. No damage as in holes but rubbed the fins a bit. I also noticed that the studs where touching my pipe clamps. Again no real damage but they would eventually wear through. It was the track slapping up and down just past the top set of wheels.

Fixed both those problems with a thicker protector over the back exchanger and a strip added to the thickness just past the wheels up top.

The upside is traction and control on ice like it was hardpack snow. Taking off on ice over a sled length long before a road crossing and simply driving across. No spinning wildly as your carbides dig in and your track flails on the ice as you desperately rock it from side to side to break the grip. You just pull away. No sudden lose of control on a corner when you hit a patch of ice. Staying up right while your buddy rolls his sled when he looses it on a icy trail at 15mph. Other then greatly reduced chances of slidding on ice and loosing control the sled handles just like before without the studs. If your sled won't steer with out without studs you need more carbide or better skis or both. It is a balance.

I added studs to give me some safety on ice sections that I can't see or suddenly come across, at the speeds I already travel at and the caution I already drive with (sometimes one could argue I need more). I didn't add them to make me faster or to help corner faster. I didn't add them to race. I just added them like I went from steel wearbars to carbide ones. If it wasn't for ice I wouldn't need those either.

I think you will see more people go to ice ripper style tracks (the warmer winters are making more ice conditions) because of no studs to pull out and less chance of damage to sled. Still have to made clearance an issue but for the most its just a bolt in and go swap. A compromise between studded and non studded. My next track will be a ice ripper type or maybe studs. I'll think about it.

As far as damage goes, sleds do damage to asphalt, concrete, wood and steel. Spinning studs across all of the above will only increase the amount of damage already being done. Period! Arguing about it just pits one sledder against another. Counter productive.

 

[snoway]

saquatch
could you please change your avatar?
It disturbs me even more disturbed than normal.

In marginal or hard crusty snow cond. I like having the running board coolers .snow can be easily put on the running bds. to cool down the motor quickly.
Rode with a rev without the running bd. coolers,..he had to find enough room off trail to run in to get snow up in the tunnel.

 

[OneBadWarrior]

The whole stud debate is a personal choice. I have ridden my sled with and without studs. My opinion on safety is this... When snow conditions are marginal, like the last five years here in new england, studs are ALMOST a necessity. When I found myself spinning wildly on an uphill, blind corner after my buddies daughter got stuck and left me stopped on this section of trail. All I could picture was some yoyo blasting me from the other direction. I was helpless and it was an awful feeling. I studded my sled the next year. I went mild up the center with 108. Now I can grip on these icy spots and I feel am just a bit safer because of it. Do I wish we had TONS OF SNOW and didn't need studs? Hell yeah. But we live where we live. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Dano]

I rather not use studs, but like it or not, many of us run on allot of ice. Studs are just another maintenance item which many seem to overlook. Studs usually become bent and loose before they pull through. When the nut is no longer supporting and doing its job, the stud bends which cause the stud back to angle and cut through the track. I lost a double backer stud last season and was lucky enough to find it on the lake. The nut was mushroomed up into the backer and obviously was like this for a while. Stud finally gave up and pulled through which I know I could of prevented this if I inspected it before. I think bottom line if you’re going to stud, there is a time where you need to decide when to get a new track and studs. Sometimes it pays to be proactive then reactive and change the track/studs before problems start just like we don’t wait to change the tires on our cars till they are all flat. If I get around 5000 miles on a track, off it goes and new one on. Not as expensive as it was in the past.
Just my .2 cents.


Dan

 

[sleddheadd]

This is a no win thread, might as well ask blonde red head or brunett

i agree with Paul!

 

[apltx08]

This is a no win thread, might as well ask blonde red head or brunett

i agree with Paul!

This is why we have 4 MFG of sleds...we can't AGREE on everything everybdy says or thinks...isn't life a "BIATCH" LOL...as long as we're having fun!!! and now lets all have a cold CHEERS.

 

[LJ 452]

Dano, I had similar issues last year but for different reasons. I had the Woody's with the tall nuts and star washers. It appears they no longer use the star washers and I believe I know why. I think with these taller studs, the stud tends to flex on the backer. With the harder (steel) star washer or nut it eventially wears a dish in the backer and if not delt with a tear through is inevitable. I had to replace about 120 of the 144 backers and many studs. I called Woody's and told them about it and the made good on it and sent me all new backers and new nuts newly designed by the way. So far very nice. Vary nice company to deal with, no excuses just results. Anway since this it has become one of our normal routine checkc befor a ride. As we call it "checking for loose teeth."

 

[Dano]

Seen my friends Doo XP 860 today and was surprised how many studs pulled through his track. After a closer look at many of the holes, I noticed the studs pulled through the track without tearing it. Turns out the single ply track are to thin and soft to support regular studs and require special studs with a bigger circumference base for better support.
Something to think about if anyone is planning to use a single ply track.

Dan

 

[snoway]

Dano,
Looks like the one stud was not tightened fully causing the wallerred out backer.
Single ply track? is that part of the Ski Doo wt. loss program?

 

[Dano]

Dano,
Looks like the one stud was not tightened fully causing the wallerred out backer.
Single ply track? is that part of the Ski Doo wt. loss program?

I can confirm that all my studs were properly tightened. When the studs start eating into the backers, the nuts seem to loosen up or pull back a bit. I also had other studs starting to do the same after inspecting in which I should have been a bit more proactive and replaced some prior.. Keep in mind that these were also all angled double backers, which wear out a bit quicker.
Yes the single ply tracks from doo seem to be junk. Skidoos weight loss program is going to take them out of the front spot very soon IMO. I’m sure glad I didn’t buy an XP this season. Anybody that is possibly thinking on switching to doo will be kicking themselves in the long term. They'll soon realize that they just took things for granted for what they had on their Yamaha.

Dan

 

[maxdlx]

Careful what you say. Yamaha is going to the single ply track too, just to shave weight. Maxdlx

 

[Dano]

Careful what you say. Yamaha is going to the single ply track too, just to shave weight. Maxdlx

on the 09s? I really hope any new future tracks are the same pitch as the current tracks so we can swap out without changing drivers. I would be very surprised if Yamaha uses the same track as doo.

Dan

 

[Cody]

Well even though studs killed my kitty (on a ty ride of all things to boot) I still dont think i ll drop studs completely. I definitely plan to check out the ice ripper tracks though.

how did they do that?