1simpleton
Newbie
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Messages
- 16
- Age
- 57
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- xtx
I have played around with the suspension on our xtx se’s and have them set up for trail riding as to where you can go around a corner with out having to worry about bouncing off a tree from the tight set up they came with from the dealer.
The only thing I am interested in now is playing with the front skid shock setting applying more/less preload on the spring, can someone tell me what is the effect of putting more load on the spring in regaurd as to what it does with the rear suspension and in turn does what to the handling steering characteristics?
I will say I think it is very very poor of Yamaha not having detailed info on these machines to help the consumer figure out how to set them up to their liking.
The only thing I am interested in now is playing with the front skid shock setting applying more/less preload on the spring, can someone tell me what is the effect of putting more load on the spring in regaurd as to what it does with the rear suspension and in turn does what to the handling steering characteristics?
I will say I think it is very very poor of Yamaha not having detailed info on these machines to help the consumer figure out how to set them up to their liking.
Ask Stingray and NosPro they have made there XTX's work very well with stock components. I do think Stingray is on to something with front skid shock spring change but NosPros works very well stock with adjustments.
Well I fought my 2014 XTX for a season making all kinds of changes and finally settled on coupled rear skid with Hygear coupler, Axis coil over clicker rear skid shock. A/C limiter straps from an xf1100 which are shorter and fatter than the stock Yamaha limiters by close to 1-1/2". I took all of the preload out of the front skid shock to get more ski pressure and added Axis coil over clicker front shocks. I am now on rails even with the stock skis and dually 8: carbides. The only push I have is too much throttle in the center of a turn will pull the skis off the ground.
My 2015 is bone stock. Removed the front skid shock preload and set rear fox at 125# front shocks at 65#'s and running the tuner skis with stock carbides the sled actually handles well right out of the box. There is a slight push with the small stock bars but nothing like the 14 when I got it.
I bought the 15 to build a drag sled out of it but have had so much fun on it stock I may leave it that way.
My 2015 is bone stock. Removed the front skid shock preload and set rear fox at 125# front shocks at 65#'s and running the tuner skis with stock carbides the sled actually handles well right out of the box. There is a slight push with the small stock bars but nothing like the 14 when I got it.
I bought the 15 to build a drag sled out of it but have had so much fun on it stock I may leave it that way.
stingray719
TY 4 Stroke God
It is a known issue - look here please for the answer. http://www.ty4stroke.com/threads/interesting-skid-shock-spring-info.131147/
Cannondale might this be sticky worthy?
Play with the shock and see what you like. Cranking in too much preload will make steering worse. There is no known issue. Stingray has a boner for adding a stiffer front shock spring but that's a personal preference. I've ridden with the stock spring for a season and a aftermarket spring and shock ....which is stiffer in the later rates of the spring. Helps in the bumps and rides better but not a big impact on cornering if you have it adjusted to where it works well...which depends on if you're setting it up for cornering or transfer and offtrail. They don't work well in the trail when setup for off trail and vice versa. Pull up your limiters for the trail if they are on the loose side. This makes the biggest difference on these for handling the corners.
stingray719
TY 4 Stroke God
LOL! The XTX and MTX Viper have a 110 pound spring in a setup that was designed for a 160 pound spring. Ask ANY of the aftermarket shock vendors what they put in the front skid shock on a Procross/proclimb chassis....or believe this guy
Or ask any of the people that actually tried the setup I advised.
1simpleton
Newbie
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Messages
- 16
- Age
- 57
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- xtx
I have set it up so it turns ok and the ride is pretty good, my biggest issue is I am working on a sled that is being ridden by a 130lb woman and another that is being ridden by a 265lb guy. Obviously they are going to require a little different adjustments but for the life of me I can't figure out what happens when we start adjusting the front skid shock.
stingray719
TY 4 Stroke God
Need balance.
A 135 pound front skid shock spring like comes in the LTX and RTX Vipers will work well in the XTX the 130lb woman rides. Put in the spring and after it contacts turn it two full rounds. Set air in rear float at 100 pounds of air with no load and the front floats at 65 pounds. Adjust ski lift by changing the rear float, more air less ski lift. This setting will make it feel like power steering to her.
A 160 pound spring in the front skid shock for the big guy, set rear float at 130 pounds and front floats at 75 pounds and adjust for ski lift same way.
I just helped a big guy set up his XTX with stiffer front spring shock, but I will let him reply if he wishes on how it works for him.
I have a stiffer spring stingray and it improves some things but it's not my first suggestion to getting these to turn better and I never found it to be a problem using the stock spring. Limiter strap adjustment will make a much greater improvement in the cornering area. Id rather tell somebody to adjust what they have to start instead of making them think they need new parts to get it to turn. You and I have been around and around on this a few times. I love to see you get worked up. Lol.
stingray719
TY 4 Stroke God
I have a stiffer spring stingray and it improves some things but it's not my first suggestion to getting these to turn better and I never found it to be a problem using the stock spring. Limiter strap adjustment will make a much greater improvement in the cornering area. Id rather tell somebody to adjust what they have to start instead of making them think they need new parts to get it to turn. You and I have been around and around on this a few times. I love to see you get worked up. Lol.
I spent a lot of time and money back when I was racing stock cars on shocks and springs. You need a spring rate matched to valving to work correctly, and taking a shock that was designed and valved for a 160 pound spring and putting a 110 pound spring in it throws all the balance off. I am waiting for somebody with a RTX or LTX with the 135 spring to put a 160 in and see what that does.
FYI, T&T-Motorsports in Wyoming (well known Cat performance specialists) puts a 180 pound spring in the M8 2 strokes with great results.
My biggest worry though is some of the bigger guys are going to bottom out and damage there sleds.
Groomer08
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Too late!
I bottomed that 115lb spring like it owed me money!
Stock setup on a xtx should be 75psi fronts, 16 threads showing center shock, 120psi rear for a lighter rider.
Me being 235, i had 80 front, 20threads, 135psi best i could get it
Then i did evol rc2 shocks in front, 70main,80evol, 20threads 135psi better. Evol makes a huge difference on push, as you can control roll. Hygear dps system is basically a evol kit for floats. Sled needs roll to eliminate push. Without that adjustment, you play with center shock preload.
Limiter strap is not the way to adjust for push. Limiter strap controls transfer. If your using the strap to adjust for push, your tying your suspensions hands behind its back. And the xtx off trail ability too.
I did stingrays spring mod to try and save 1200bucks.
It didnt work....for what i WANTED.
It works...as in that spring isnt strong enough stock.
The sled rides alot better, and i can now adjust balance like he said, im down to 14 threads and 100lbs rear spring.
Handling is better,as is steering. But its still not COMFORTABLE through high speed huge bumps. I still get launched off my seat.
I only have 2 rides on this, and 2 adjustments, so it still has time, but i just dont see how spring pressure changes are going to affect rebound issues.
Sled is amazing on great trails at normal speeds.
But push the speed up or put a big roller or stuter bump in the trail and its like goddam, howd i end up back on a srx?
I bottomed that 115lb spring like it owed me money!
Stock setup on a xtx should be 75psi fronts, 16 threads showing center shock, 120psi rear for a lighter rider.
Me being 235, i had 80 front, 20threads, 135psi best i could get it
Then i did evol rc2 shocks in front, 70main,80evol, 20threads 135psi better. Evol makes a huge difference on push, as you can control roll. Hygear dps system is basically a evol kit for floats. Sled needs roll to eliminate push. Without that adjustment, you play with center shock preload.
Limiter strap is not the way to adjust for push. Limiter strap controls transfer. If your using the strap to adjust for push, your tying your suspensions hands behind its back. And the xtx off trail ability too.
I did stingrays spring mod to try and save 1200bucks.
It didnt work....for what i WANTED.
It works...as in that spring isnt strong enough stock.
The sled rides alot better, and i can now adjust balance like he said, im down to 14 threads and 100lbs rear spring.
Handling is better,as is steering. But its still not COMFORTABLE through high speed huge bumps. I still get launched off my seat.
I only have 2 rides on this, and 2 adjustments, so it still has time, but i just dont see how spring pressure changes are going to affect rebound issues.
Sled is amazing on great trails at normal speeds.
But push the speed up or put a big roller or stuter bump in the trail and its like goddam, howd i end up back on a srx?
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sledheadgeorge
TY 4 Stroke God
Increasing the spring preload on the front shock of the rear skid will give you less ski pressure, and more weight transfer to the rear. Decreasing(loosening) the spring will give you more ski pressure, less transfer to the rear and also lower the COG of the machine. Suspension tuning is a compromise. Every change affects some other part of the sled so to counter some things you want in the suspension you might have to make other changes as well. Personally I really don't think its Yamahas fault. Most people just get on the machine and ride. In my humble opinion I think the dealer should set up the machines suspension for your riding preferences and you fine tune it once you get it.
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Definitly already is right in Facts Sticky. If folks would post in the sticky we all wouldnt have to search all over for the info. I will try merging this thread into the original XTX suspension thread here:
http://www.ty4stroke.com/threads/xtx-best-suspension-setting.125985/
Done added to sticky. In my opinion the biggest contributing factor to push is the inablity to plant the front end in a corner. Rebound is critical for this as is rider input(sitting forward and hanging off and forward) and the ability to let the swaybar do its job which it cant do with stiff front shocks. Transfer is good and throttle and brake along with rider should be able to control exactly when you want front end to plant the skis. If not adjustments or even shock valving might be needed. A good indicator of proper transfer is stand on sled,grab the bars and the brake,lean way forward then lean way back does the sled go down in front and up in back when leaning forward and down in back and up in front when leaning way back? If so you got it and you know what to do to get it to turn on a trail. On Powder its almost all rider input to turn. Probably wouldnt even need skis.
