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Shimming and turning Ski Blocks around greatly reduces

tkuss

TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
702
Location
Platteville/Three Lakes, WI
I have an 07 Phazer FX. I have installed about an 1/4 inch plastic shim into the rear of the ski. I then rode the sled and this helped reduce the darting but darting was still there. I then rotated the rubber ski block around, since guys over in the Nytro section have been having good luck doing this. I then test road and this has also has helped reduce the darting. I would say that these two mods decreased the darting about 70% or so. I am finally getting my sled to handle the way I want it to. I lowered the limiter strap two holes, this greatly helped reduce the inside ski lift, although I cant pop the skis off the ground anymore while taking off, and I also reduce the front skis preload as much as I could. I now still have two things I don't care for though. One is when I am driving down trails, mostly railoroad grades or anywhere where I get alot of speed going, I will then let of the gas and the sled then will start swerving all over the place to the point where I am slightly worried that if the conditions are right I will start to roll the sled over. Anybody else get this feeling? Also right now the Phazer steers heavier than my Apex with C&A skis. Up on a stand it steers fine, I know I lowered the limiter straps with adds pressure, but it steered heavy before I did that as well. I feel that shimming the skis may have added to it slightly, but I would rather have less darting and heavier steering than alot of darting. Also I should mention that lately with the steering very heavy the temps out side have been about -10 while riding. Any suggestions for my problems?
 

I have had alot of problems with darting and the sled seemed to be very tippy through the turns. I to have lowered the limiter strap and a couple of people suggested dualies for the fornt skis. I was soing to order a set, but was not sure which to purchase, because of the 72 studs on the back. Any body else running dualies and has this solved the porblem?
 
The only cure for the wild swerving I found was doolys. Everyone told me to do the above, but only the doolys solved the darting while keeping the steering light. With the added bonus of stopping the off throttle swerve......
 
what size dualies did you put on? And do you have the track studded?
 
I ordered a set of Bergstroms and they came with a few goodies.
Including shims for under the rubber, and ski savers
which also work as shims.

While I don't think I've ever noticed darting, its definitely not
there now.

I also added Scotts "contours" to the mountain ski.
You'll have to ask him about them, I did it just to see
how they worked, and I have no real issues with them
makes the ski more of a tri-hull than a deep keel.

100_3638.JPG
 
I shimmed the skis and put on 4" dual carbides and it was night and day. I might try 6" next but tracks and turns way better. The stock carbides are junk!
 
i put on 4" dual carbides and it was a lot better. now i just have to tighten my limiter strap, rebuild my front shocks, and cover the hole and tis will turn it into the best sled ever.
 
tkuss said:
I have an 07 Phazer FX. I have installed about an 1/4 inch plastic shim into the rear of the ski. I then rode the sled and this helped reduce the darting but darting was still there. I then rotated the rubber ski block around, since guys over in the Nytro section have been having good luck doing this. I then test road and this has also has helped reduce the darting. I would say that these two mods decreased the darting about 70% or so. I am finally getting my sled to handle the way I want it to. I lowered the limiter strap two holes, this greatly helped reduce the inside ski lift, although I cant pop the skis off the ground anymore while taking off, and I also reduce the front skis preload as much as I could. I now still have two things I don't care for though. One is when I am driving down trails, mostly railoroad grades or anywhere where I get alot of speed going, I will then let of the gas and the sled then will start swerving all over the place to the point where I am slightly worried that if the conditions are right I will start to roll the sled over. Anybody else get this feeling?

biggest issue is engine braking. anytime you let off the gas with the 4 stroke motor in our sleds, it amplified (engine braking) so you notice it a lot more. basically its like u hit the brakes a little and is why yamaha's newest motors have engine braking reduction features. but anyways, when you let off the gas and it acts as if the brakes applied a little bit, weight shifts forward and applys more force to the skis. this is just natural. the skis bite in more and then like you say the sled wanders and darts more then if on the gas. i notice the exact same thing on my sled. and yes at times you do say to urself jesus man, this thing gets so bad sometimes i think it could buck me off. it did happen to me once. go so squirly whoom, bucked me right off the sled. was back and forth and just caught and tossed me. even with the ski skim mod the problem really is just in the design of the yamaha skis. in my opinion they suck. slp's slt (straight line tracking) skis are really the way to go, but they'll cost ya around 400 with carbide. this fixes the problem properly.
i sorta pump my brake a lil versus continues application of it to help stop the darting under braking. and i've sorta adapted to it and know what to expect outta the sled with engine braking so its not as bad to me anymore.

my setup is one hole tighter on the front strap (although still a lotta ski lift under certain conditions) decent amount of front shocks preload, i think 5 on rebound, 6 on compression.

medium setting on rear blocks, center shock preload is pretty tight.

after going one tighter on the limiter strap i almost feel as if the sleds taking hits harder, and really ski lift hasnt improved. problem is i had the 08 suspension updates done and hadnt ridden it with the 08 parts before i did the limiter strap adjustment.


i guess all in all yamaha is getting there slowly. they really need to focus on darting issues now and elimate that along with the ski lift.

i could play with suspension settings all day long but the hell with it. im just riding it as is from now on.


Also right now the Phazer steers heavier than my Apex with C&A skis. Up on a stand it steers fine, I know I lowered the limiter straps with adds pressure, but it steered heavy before I did that as well. I feel that shimming the skis may have added to it slightly, but I would rather have less darting and heavier steering than alot of darting. Also I should mention that lately with the steering very heavy the temps out side have been about -10 while riding. Any suggestions for my problems


as for heavy steering, shimming stops the front edge of carbide from biting so much so it shouldnt make it any harder to steer, if anything it'd make it easier. what makes it harder is tightening the front limiter strap.
keep in mind, when you do tighten up the limiter strap, you should also back off on the preload on the center rear suspension shock as well as rule of thumb.
?
 
Jeff C said:
I have had alot of problems with darting and the sled seemed to be very tippy through the turns. I to have lowered the limiter strap and a couple of people suggested dualies for the fornt skis. I was soing to order a set, but was not sure which to purchase, because of the 72 studs on the back. Any body else running dualies and has this solved the porblem?


jeff dont waste you money on dually's. if anything go with bergstroms triple point carbides. but really the best and cheapest method is to shim the ski bumpers.
 
Gerard 143 thanks for the reply. Unfortunately now the darting and heaving steering is the least of my worries. 2 weekends ago, I had the link break with about 2200 miles on the sled or so. When the link broke we still had to drive about 25 miles to get back and the track got torn up supposedly, thats what the dealer said. The next weekend my father and I picked the sled up and it was like new, got all the new rear suspension parts installed, new track, hyfax, wheels, cold start update all covered under warranty. The track was studded and yamaha is not able to replace the studs under warranty which kind of sucks, but I understand why, other than that I am very happy. My father and I starting riding the same day, got about 40 miles and he got pulled over for blowing a stop sign on the sled. About 1 minute and 270$ later we notice a strange noise coming from the primary clutch area. We take off the cover and see if we can diagnose the problem even though we know nothing about fixing snowmobile clutches and engine parts. We thought the sound was just some loose bolts on the primary so we tried to tighten them, but the with the tools we have that was just not going to happen. We decide to turn around and about 3 miles down the trail my dad said the Engine just shut off and the engine light came on. He said he could hear all foreign noises just a bit before this happened. Anyway we had to tow the sled 35 miles back to the dealer. Now when we turn the key the primary spins but not the you can tell the engine does not turn over at all. So for all we know now the engine could be blown, or the starter shot, I have no clue. Luckily everything should and will be covered under warranty.
 
ya i wouldnt worry about warranty coverage. if the primary is spinning but not that motor what i would guess is that the starter gear is just spinning on the crankshaft.

from what i can see on the parts microfiche online on yamaha's site the starter gear is just pressed onto the shaft. however, unless the clutch is spinning on the shaft too which seems odd (although u could verify this easily by cranking it over and looking at the shaft to see if that is actually spinning with the primary clutch) then my next guess would be the crankshaft is broken and the starter gear and clutch are spinning but the rest of the crankshaft isnt because it broke. thing is the starter gear should be pressed onto the shaft behind the clutch, but not actually bolted to the primary clutch as far as i know so if both are spinning and the motor definately is not turning over then broken crankshaft it is.

i'm gonna go look at my sled now, but i believe the starter gear is merely pressed on behind the primary not actually bolted. if i'm correct i won't update this post.

lemme know what you find out.



UPDATE: good news brother. which makes sense anyways due to balancing of the crankshaft, but the starter gear is on the opposite side of the clutch, so if your cranking the motor over and the clutch is turning as well the crankshaft is not broken and the motor is indeed turning over.
 
far as those snow trackers go, so far the best reviews i've read come from bergstroms triple point carbides and simply shimming the ski bumper.
 


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