Yamahnator
TY 4 Stroke Guru
I was given a chance to trail ride the 08's. My main focus was on the Vector in the new chassis (and the Vector LTX), the Apex RTX, and obviously the Nytro (both were RTX's). I'm 30 yrs old, 6'1", and float between 215-225. Conditions were hardpack, to drifted powder, to melting mealy conditions in the afternoon. We ran into smooth trails (Thanks to TC riders in Camden) to whooped out sections (thanks to southwester tug hill, northern Rome). We rode a total of 90 miles. Temp was low 20's to high 30's in the afternoon. We spent plenty of time checking them out at first and then also plenty of time stopping on the trail to talk about them.
A brief synopsis on each machine, then more in depth.
Apex RTX - This is a refined machine. The ride was night and day between the monoshock and the CK.
Vector (and Vector LTX)- This sled imo is going to the best unrecognized sled next year.
Nytro RTX - After riding it, this is the sled that I've been waiting for Yamaha to build since 03.
First... The Nytro - Like I said this is the sled I've been waiting for Yamaha to build. Ergonimics were great, sitting felt natural and comfortable (much more comfortable seat than my Phazer, and I really had no complaints with that seat to begin with). Transitioning from sitting to standing was literally the easiest I've felt on any sled I've ever ridden, and I've ridden just about all of them.
Standing felt natural and you really felt like you were right on that pivot point between the front and the back of the sled. The footboards are very wide and grip your boots very well (no ice as well). They are also very strong and durable. The handlebars I wasn't sure of at first. They came back at a different angle and the way you actually turned them was disconcerting at first. I don't know how to explain this, and perhaps it's just me that felt it. Once I got used to it I loved it. It was comfortable standing up (I'd probably put an inch or two riser for my height, but I can't say for sure yet, if you don't have or need one on the Phazer then you won't need one here), but where the handlebars shined was in cornering. It felt natural cornering it. It's really hard to explain and I guess you'll have to try it yourself. Or perhaps I'm off my rocker...
Also disconcerting at first was the almost lack of engine braking. I usually natrually compensate when I jump on a two stroke but I guess my brain wasn't thinking that at first and I had to slam on the brake before rear ending one of the other demo machines. It puzzled me at first and I at first thought "man this things got a real low rolling resistance" until I realized what it was. Very cool and very good when you're taking the sled in the air.
The setup on the fox floats was at 75 lb's. The rear setup I did not check as I had spoken with the rep and was told that they were still playing with it and calibrations could be changed before production. In a few short words it was unbelievable. For my uses it's the best rear suspension than Yamaha has made to date. More on that later when I talk about bumps. I like my setup stiff. Another who was there riding and weighs about 60 lb's less than me felt it was TOO stiff. So take that into consideration when selecting your purchase. Also keep in mind that setup is everything and rides can be changed
.
The overall ride quality is exceptional. Wade Wests comments on Maxsled really hit the nail on the head. Whether it's sweeping into a corner on smooth trails or hitting the whooped corners the thing stayed flat. It was better riding than my Phazer. IMO the chassis sat different than the Phazer, it was nimble, and responded to body imput like the Phazer (those who've gotten used to the FX and it's sway bar know how this is), but yet was even more stable feeling. Again this can partially be due to setup and this Nytro apparently was set exactly as I would have set it.
Bumps. Wow, Yamaha finally built a jumping sled with a powerplant to match it. Anyone from the area knows that certain parts of "The Hill" develop nicely spaced big whoops that can be nasty if cased, but loads of fun if hit right. Though not as whooped out as I've seen it on the worst of days, there were some nice ones that we hit and it was simplicity in hitting doubles. Even the ones I cased the sled handled them wonderfully and I quickly lost the "oh crap" flinch when I was on the Nytro. I really couldn't believe how easily you could just pin the thing and hit whatever came along. I believe I bottomed the sled once during the whole day and that was on a nasty G-out. That imo is how you should have your suspension set to make the best use of it. In the stutters I was also pretty suprised. It was definately stiff (which I like), which usually means that the small stutter bumps you're going to feel, but it was actually very mild.
I mentioned that you could double some of those whoops and that was another thing I liked. You could really pre-load the rear suspension and get that extra lift. It also came off of jumps/whoops level and predictable. And like I mentioned earlier little to no engine braking which keeps it flat even when letting off the throttle mid jump. I'm sure many a 4 stroke rider on this forum can think of those initial "oh crap" moments after switching to 4 stroke where they instinctively let off the throttle coming off a jump or whoop which only made the nose dive more. That's gone.
Ski's. Like I've said before I'm not a fan of Yamaha ski's. However I rode for quite a ways before remembering that they were stock ski's, perhaps it was the setup that made me not think of them. Who knows, but it cornered on a dime and there was little if any ski lift. It cornered unbelievably flat.
The powerplant... Seat of the pants feel you WILL NOT be able to tell the difference between this and the Apex. Only if you have an Apex next to you in a drag race would you be able to tell. Rep said that the Apex on average is about 1-2 sled lengths ahead and it's completely believable, and out of the hole most often neck and neck. I'm sure on a long lake run the Apex will show it's legs don't get me wrong, but for trail riding and the usual 1/4 drag race this sled is going to give 800's fits. It'd lift the ski's easily but not sky them. Which is good, the rear skid was getting the power to the ground. I was thoroughly impressed by the snappiness and the torque and the mid-range hit was spot on.
Gas mileage was about 15.5 mpg. Considering that it was subpar gas mileage conditions and that I'd estimate we had them running for at least 20 min idling/blipping the throttle, and that every field we'd slow down to nothing and then WOT it, I wouldn't be suprised to see 16 + or more in general conditions. The tank is all usable (according to the rep). I let it idle for a long time to see if the overheat light would come on and I didn't see one. The radiator is mounted high and heat is sent back down through the foot wells. It was odd and at our first stop I asked him if it did that because my toes had been freezing in the morning and by the first stop I could actually feel the heat. This might make for sweaty feet in spring conditions, who knows. I didn't care for the rear taillight, I thought that it got obstructed by snow easily and being LED nothing to melt it off. There is storage in the front where I was told there would be a small bag that will fit pretty much only a belt and the toolkit (backpackers will keep on backpacking looks like). The spark plugs are easily accessible unlike the Apex. Not that I think you'll need to change them. Oil change if I remember right I was told would be even less time than the Apex. Perhaps SRXspec could confirm this. Also wind protection was lacking for those who get cold easily and they'll want to check out the bigger windshields. For myself I don't get cold that much and ride with a light race jacket anyways so I didn't mind it, wind would hit me in the upper chest/helmet.
To be blunt I was thoroughly impressed by the sled. Like I said earlier it's the sled I've been waiting for them to build. I know it sounds like a Hallmark card but it is that good. And comments from such people as Wade West from Max sled are pretty much along the same lines. I've been a Doo fan for a while as well and often end up spending half my rides on Revs switching in an out. They're a great machine and imo the most capable in the big and nasty whooped out sections of trail. I've made no secret of this opinion and while I loved smoking them on my Attak to just prove that I could do it, it did take more energy than it would have on the Rev (taking nothing from the Apex chassis, it's still imo one of the best if not the best general trail riding machine). The Nytro surpasses the current rev capability imo AND is very easy to ride in multiple positions for the not so nasty sections. I have not ridden the XP so don't ask me to compare the two (and also taking nothing away from the other two makes). Anyone who's looking for an aggressive trail machine that's going to give you an awesome ride, and is still on the fence about whether to buy or not, buy with confidence, just make sure you get the suspension package that's most going to meet your trail riding needs.
Secondly the Vector: I was able to ride both the shortie and the LTX. I generally prefer longer track machines, but that's simply preference. Like I said above this sled is going to be the best unrecognized sled out there. The performance was spot on as those who've owned Vector's have come to expect out of the engine. You'll get awesome gas mileage (plenty of threads on this), great 120 hp class performance, and now the chassis to go with it.
The seating position is obviously the same as the Apex. This sled has been really overshadowed by the release of the Nytro, but if you'll remember we were all calling for this plant to be put in the Delta 2. IT WILL NOT DISSAPOINT! It felt lighter riding than the Apex, and I attribute this to the position of the motor. I expected the monoshock to be valved soft and to bottom it but it handled everything very well even for one of my weight. You can expect the same bump soaking plush ride here as well.
The LTX (like I said I generally prefer long tracks) had me missing my Attak again, except they felt a little lighter when riding. Both vector's had the same feeling I was used to, the faster you went the more the stutters planed right out. In a word: Smooth. The Apex has proven to be one of the best chassis's out there and the Vector will have you feeling that you made the right purchase.
I could go on an on about the sled but really what you're getting is that great Apex chassis, with a little lighter feel in that great 120 hp mill.
And lastly the Apex RTX: The sled that I rode had dualies on because the weekend before had been really rough on the ol carbides and the shop didn't have anything left other than dualies I guess. I was very impressed with the handling with the dualies. It cornered predictable and had very little inside ski lift. I've said it before here, that I'm not a big fan of Yamaha's stock ski's but the dualies really minimized what I think are some of the downfalls to the ski. The CK is an awesome bump suspension. I was able to ride it over some whooped out sections and it didn't try to just soak them like the monoshock does, you could get decent preload out of it and really launch the thing with confidence. This still isn't a snowcross sled or even a jumping sled so don't anyone read into it as that. What it is is an aggressive trail machine that's going to get you through the day on rough and smooth trails in confidence.
Miscellaneous: I asked the Rep about the Phazer side panels. He said that the 08's (as has already been posted, but some may not have seen it) will have plastic guards that cover the sides. This should eliminate most if not all of the ice buildup that is an issue for some people. The suspension linkage has also been updated. I also asked about those who are having overheating issues and he said that they were looking into the issue. I didn't get to ride a Phazer RTX so I can't comment on the difference in ride.
I'd like to thank the rep Matt Asplund for being a great host, answering as many questions as I could fire at him even the "why doesn't yamaha do this" ones that he probably hears all the time, and for being honest when he truly didn't know the answer to an off the wall question. I'd also like to thank Eric, and of course Totally Yamaha (Mr. Sled) for allowing me to go on this ride. It was a lot of fun and great to experience the new iron before hand. I'm sure that I've forgotten to add in this post somewhere (even as long as it is) some of the things I asked and got answers to, but I may remember them later.
A brief synopsis on each machine, then more in depth.
Apex RTX - This is a refined machine. The ride was night and day between the monoshock and the CK.
Vector (and Vector LTX)- This sled imo is going to the best unrecognized sled next year.
Nytro RTX - After riding it, this is the sled that I've been waiting for Yamaha to build since 03.
First... The Nytro - Like I said this is the sled I've been waiting for Yamaha to build. Ergonimics were great, sitting felt natural and comfortable (much more comfortable seat than my Phazer, and I really had no complaints with that seat to begin with). Transitioning from sitting to standing was literally the easiest I've felt on any sled I've ever ridden, and I've ridden just about all of them.
Standing felt natural and you really felt like you were right on that pivot point between the front and the back of the sled. The footboards are very wide and grip your boots very well (no ice as well). They are also very strong and durable. The handlebars I wasn't sure of at first. They came back at a different angle and the way you actually turned them was disconcerting at first. I don't know how to explain this, and perhaps it's just me that felt it. Once I got used to it I loved it. It was comfortable standing up (I'd probably put an inch or two riser for my height, but I can't say for sure yet, if you don't have or need one on the Phazer then you won't need one here), but where the handlebars shined was in cornering. It felt natural cornering it. It's really hard to explain and I guess you'll have to try it yourself. Or perhaps I'm off my rocker...
Also disconcerting at first was the almost lack of engine braking. I usually natrually compensate when I jump on a two stroke but I guess my brain wasn't thinking that at first and I had to slam on the brake before rear ending one of the other demo machines. It puzzled me at first and I at first thought "man this things got a real low rolling resistance" until I realized what it was. Very cool and very good when you're taking the sled in the air.
The setup on the fox floats was at 75 lb's. The rear setup I did not check as I had spoken with the rep and was told that they were still playing with it and calibrations could be changed before production. In a few short words it was unbelievable. For my uses it's the best rear suspension than Yamaha has made to date. More on that later when I talk about bumps. I like my setup stiff. Another who was there riding and weighs about 60 lb's less than me felt it was TOO stiff. So take that into consideration when selecting your purchase. Also keep in mind that setup is everything and rides can be changed
. The overall ride quality is exceptional. Wade Wests comments on Maxsled really hit the nail on the head. Whether it's sweeping into a corner on smooth trails or hitting the whooped corners the thing stayed flat. It was better riding than my Phazer. IMO the chassis sat different than the Phazer, it was nimble, and responded to body imput like the Phazer (those who've gotten used to the FX and it's sway bar know how this is), but yet was even more stable feeling. Again this can partially be due to setup and this Nytro apparently was set exactly as I would have set it.
Bumps. Wow, Yamaha finally built a jumping sled with a powerplant to match it. Anyone from the area knows that certain parts of "The Hill" develop nicely spaced big whoops that can be nasty if cased, but loads of fun if hit right. Though not as whooped out as I've seen it on the worst of days, there were some nice ones that we hit and it was simplicity in hitting doubles. Even the ones I cased the sled handled them wonderfully and I quickly lost the "oh crap" flinch when I was on the Nytro. I really couldn't believe how easily you could just pin the thing and hit whatever came along. I believe I bottomed the sled once during the whole day and that was on a nasty G-out. That imo is how you should have your suspension set to make the best use of it. In the stutters I was also pretty suprised. It was definately stiff (which I like), which usually means that the small stutter bumps you're going to feel, but it was actually very mild.
I mentioned that you could double some of those whoops and that was another thing I liked. You could really pre-load the rear suspension and get that extra lift. It also came off of jumps/whoops level and predictable. And like I mentioned earlier little to no engine braking which keeps it flat even when letting off the throttle mid jump. I'm sure many a 4 stroke rider on this forum can think of those initial "oh crap" moments after switching to 4 stroke where they instinctively let off the throttle coming off a jump or whoop which only made the nose dive more. That's gone.
Ski's. Like I've said before I'm not a fan of Yamaha ski's. However I rode for quite a ways before remembering that they were stock ski's, perhaps it was the setup that made me not think of them. Who knows, but it cornered on a dime and there was little if any ski lift. It cornered unbelievably flat.
The powerplant... Seat of the pants feel you WILL NOT be able to tell the difference between this and the Apex. Only if you have an Apex next to you in a drag race would you be able to tell. Rep said that the Apex on average is about 1-2 sled lengths ahead and it's completely believable, and out of the hole most often neck and neck. I'm sure on a long lake run the Apex will show it's legs don't get me wrong, but for trail riding and the usual 1/4 drag race this sled is going to give 800's fits. It'd lift the ski's easily but not sky them. Which is good, the rear skid was getting the power to the ground. I was thoroughly impressed by the snappiness and the torque and the mid-range hit was spot on.
Gas mileage was about 15.5 mpg. Considering that it was subpar gas mileage conditions and that I'd estimate we had them running for at least 20 min idling/blipping the throttle, and that every field we'd slow down to nothing and then WOT it, I wouldn't be suprised to see 16 + or more in general conditions. The tank is all usable (according to the rep). I let it idle for a long time to see if the overheat light would come on and I didn't see one. The radiator is mounted high and heat is sent back down through the foot wells. It was odd and at our first stop I asked him if it did that because my toes had been freezing in the morning and by the first stop I could actually feel the heat. This might make for sweaty feet in spring conditions, who knows. I didn't care for the rear taillight, I thought that it got obstructed by snow easily and being LED nothing to melt it off. There is storage in the front where I was told there would be a small bag that will fit pretty much only a belt and the toolkit (backpackers will keep on backpacking looks like). The spark plugs are easily accessible unlike the Apex. Not that I think you'll need to change them. Oil change if I remember right I was told would be even less time than the Apex. Perhaps SRXspec could confirm this. Also wind protection was lacking for those who get cold easily and they'll want to check out the bigger windshields. For myself I don't get cold that much and ride with a light race jacket anyways so I didn't mind it, wind would hit me in the upper chest/helmet.
To be blunt I was thoroughly impressed by the sled. Like I said earlier it's the sled I've been waiting for them to build. I know it sounds like a Hallmark card but it is that good. And comments from such people as Wade West from Max sled are pretty much along the same lines. I've been a Doo fan for a while as well and often end up spending half my rides on Revs switching in an out. They're a great machine and imo the most capable in the big and nasty whooped out sections of trail. I've made no secret of this opinion and while I loved smoking them on my Attak to just prove that I could do it, it did take more energy than it would have on the Rev (taking nothing from the Apex chassis, it's still imo one of the best if not the best general trail riding machine). The Nytro surpasses the current rev capability imo AND is very easy to ride in multiple positions for the not so nasty sections. I have not ridden the XP so don't ask me to compare the two (and also taking nothing away from the other two makes). Anyone who's looking for an aggressive trail machine that's going to give you an awesome ride, and is still on the fence about whether to buy or not, buy with confidence, just make sure you get the suspension package that's most going to meet your trail riding needs.
Secondly the Vector: I was able to ride both the shortie and the LTX. I generally prefer longer track machines, but that's simply preference. Like I said above this sled is going to be the best unrecognized sled out there. The performance was spot on as those who've owned Vector's have come to expect out of the engine. You'll get awesome gas mileage (plenty of threads on this), great 120 hp class performance, and now the chassis to go with it.
The seating position is obviously the same as the Apex. This sled has been really overshadowed by the release of the Nytro, but if you'll remember we were all calling for this plant to be put in the Delta 2. IT WILL NOT DISSAPOINT! It felt lighter riding than the Apex, and I attribute this to the position of the motor. I expected the monoshock to be valved soft and to bottom it but it handled everything very well even for one of my weight. You can expect the same bump soaking plush ride here as well.
The LTX (like I said I generally prefer long tracks) had me missing my Attak again, except they felt a little lighter when riding. Both vector's had the same feeling I was used to, the faster you went the more the stutters planed right out. In a word: Smooth. The Apex has proven to be one of the best chassis's out there and the Vector will have you feeling that you made the right purchase.
I could go on an on about the sled but really what you're getting is that great Apex chassis, with a little lighter feel in that great 120 hp mill.
And lastly the Apex RTX: The sled that I rode had dualies on because the weekend before had been really rough on the ol carbides and the shop didn't have anything left other than dualies I guess. I was very impressed with the handling with the dualies. It cornered predictable and had very little inside ski lift. I've said it before here, that I'm not a big fan of Yamaha's stock ski's but the dualies really minimized what I think are some of the downfalls to the ski. The CK is an awesome bump suspension. I was able to ride it over some whooped out sections and it didn't try to just soak them like the monoshock does, you could get decent preload out of it and really launch the thing with confidence. This still isn't a snowcross sled or even a jumping sled so don't anyone read into it as that. What it is is an aggressive trail machine that's going to get you through the day on rough and smooth trails in confidence.
Miscellaneous: I asked the Rep about the Phazer side panels. He said that the 08's (as has already been posted, but some may not have seen it) will have plastic guards that cover the sides. This should eliminate most if not all of the ice buildup that is an issue for some people. The suspension linkage has also been updated. I also asked about those who are having overheating issues and he said that they were looking into the issue. I didn't get to ride a Phazer RTX so I can't comment on the difference in ride.
I'd like to thank the rep Matt Asplund for being a great host, answering as many questions as I could fire at him even the "why doesn't yamaha do this" ones that he probably hears all the time, and for being honest when he truly didn't know the answer to an off the wall question. I'd also like to thank Eric, and of course Totally Yamaha (Mr. Sled) for allowing me to go on this ride. It was a lot of fun and great to experience the new iron before hand. I'm sure that I've forgotten to add in this post somewhere (even as long as it is) some of the things I asked and got answers to, but I may remember them later.
Attachments
T-Bone
Expert
Nice report Yamahnator. What is your opinion of the FX Nytro as a 150-200 mile per day Canadian trail sled? My Apex GT shines best on those Canadian trails, which is where 2/3 of my miles are logged. The other 1/3 are here in the much tighter trails of Weastern NY. Do you think I would be happy riding the new Nytro on long distance, fast paced trail riding in Canada? Thanks.
Thanks Yamahnator, Another indepth positive review of the new Nytro! There sure seems like a lot more quality positive reviews on this sled then any other type of review on it!
All these people can't be wrong!!
Looks as if Yamaha hit a homer also!
All these people can't be wrong!!
Looks as if Yamaha hit a homer also!
Vmax4
TY 4 Stroke Guru
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Nice review, thanks for all the time it takes to write up a thoughtful dialog about a new sled like this.
Thanks,
Steve
Thanks,
Steve
Yamahnator
TY 4 Stroke Guru
T-Bone said:
I felt that it was very comfortable and I didn't feel cramped or locked into one position. It's a different stance than the Apex, but it's not an inferior one for long days. You have the option to slide back on the seat a bit albeit not quite as much as the Apex. You may want to see what they come out with as far as windshields if you ride in a place that's regularly quite cold.
Riceburner
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Some of the best written reports I have seen Yamanahtor.
Thanks for taking the time to write them.
Rice
Thanks for taking the time to write them.
Rice
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