Flash Update Coming Fall-2016

[Dinner]

I tried starting again with no ignition cycle and it started up fine. I'll keep starting it this way (the old way) to see if it is going to start ok.

 

[hellflyer]

Did not flash 16 yet. But as far as start between old and new flash mine 17 first start warm from garage took 2 tries as it has. Once running only one. Wife's 16 always one but pulsing idle. Now left them outside last night. Mine started cold first try? And once all day. Not sure if it means anything or not.

That's what I was told by my dealer! Should start one try when it's cold out with my new flash, but never did it need two tries with the new flash but did earlier this fall when it was warmer , so I don't see a problem really.

 

[hellflyer]

My pcv instructions say it get power from the fuel pump and when the pump shuts off the pcv looses power so should not wait for pump to Cycle if my memory hasn't failed me!

 

[Dinner]

That's what I was told by my dealer! Should start one try when it's cold out with my new flash, but never did it need two tries with the new flash but did earlier this fall when it was warmer , so I don't see a problem really.

So far my sled has only been taking 1 try to start cold (in the garage), where before it was 2 tries. I'm not concerned about the hot start issue either as long as it starts with no ignition cycle all the time. I was ticked and still am in a way. Sure the kick back has been fixed but come on yami...this hot start issue is a joke.

Again starting it without letting it think is no big deal. You just would think they would have came out with a fix for that.

 

[Jord05]

Well was -35•c and she would not start would just sputter and die which sucks if it sits out on them cold nights

 

[FrozenTows4]

Well was -35•c and she would not start would just sputter and die which sucks if it sits out on them cold nights

That's -31 Fahrenheit for us southern guys. Pretty sticking cold.

Sunday my coolant temperature was -14F. Took about 6 tries to get it to start. Last attempt it complained, started slow, then fired up. To be fair, this is still the gas that has sat all summer.

Last season, at the same temperatures, it took maybe 3 tries, but fired up strong.

Warm starts are now about a 50/50 split between 1 and 2 tries.
On one start, it appeared to fire so I released the key like before. Engine, and starter, stopped dead solid. I'm guessing this is the kick back everyone is talking about. Now I'm in denial hoping that no damage was done.
This garbage about having this special starting procedure is ridiculous. It's a fuel injected engine for Pete sake! Should be like our cars, get in, turn the key, it starts, let it warm up, and go. Shouldn't take any magical flip this, wait for that, flip it back, and try again.

My 2014 & 2015 flash never had any issues. Turn the key was all the only magic needed.
The 2015 program had much more cold idle hunting. It was actually more of a lope like it had a performance cam. Very tolerable and had a certain "cool appeal". Always started strong, usually first try, and immediate & strong warm starts.

I only have about 1/3 of a tank on the new flash. First impression is I'd like my 2015 program back.
How many times can we Slap the ECU before things Really get messed up?
I think this makes four total now.
2014 factory, late 2014 update, 2015 latest greatest, and now the 2016 step backwards. And there doesn't seem to be a consistent one in the bunch.

I think some of the kick back, and other starting/running issues, were self inflicted. Not many people check for battery terminal corrosion or if they're tight enough. They Do loosen on their own.
Combine a loose connection, with a corroded terminal, with undersized battery cables, and there's no wonder things don't perform right.

Now Yamaha & Arctic Cat are trying to correct situations by pushing a button, rather than picking up a wrench and digging into the big picture.
Sign of the times...if it can't be done on your phone, it can't be done.

I'm still looking forward to a great season. Right now, if I could get the 2015 program back, and accurately loaded like last season, I'd take it.

Bottom line, now that I'm out of warranty, I'm pre-scouting how to change a starter. And looking into a fresh ECU to be programed with anything but what Yamaha or Cat can come up with. You've had your chance. You've tried, but now your fired.

My Wife is questioning me as to why I have to keep working on a machine, with 1250 miles, for no small change, so many times, over the past couple seasons. It's getting harder to explain.

For me, the season has just barely begun. Glad I saved the ol' ZRT600 as back up.

 

[DT]

That's -31 Fahrenheit for us southern guys.

Dang that's cold!!

Now Yamaha & Arctic Cat are trying to correct situations by pushing a button, rather than picking up a wrench and digging into the big picture.
Sign of the times...if it can't be done on your phone, it can't be done.

I agree with this. It seems our society has adopted a system where you buy a product then wait for computer updates to fix it. I might be a little old school, but I still believe in buying a product, not a project. In the old days, if there needed to be a fix for something, it was only because a part failed before its normal service life expectancy or it was a safety issue. This new school philosophy is a bunch of crap!

 

[FrozenTows4]

Dang that's cold!!



I agree with this. It seems our society has adopted a system where you buy a product then wait for computer updates to fix it. I might be a little old school, but I still believe in buying a product, not a project. In the old days, if there needed to be a fix for something, it was only because a part failed before its normal service life expectancy or it was a safety issue. This new school philosophy is a bunch of crap!

Egzachary!

 

[grizztracks]

A simple flash isn't going to fix the problem totally. The problem is beyond a software update and is more likely a flawed ECU and electrical system. I believe this issue is were Yamaha failed by relying on or allowing Arctic Cat to produce the needed electrical system for the marriage of their motor into a cat chassis. Arctic Cat's knowledge of what was needed to properly control one of these engines was minimal and their engineers naive to believe they could equal Yamaha's technology.

 

[Mike P]

I could not agree more. I can eliminate the electrical issue with mixed results but I do not have enough knowledge of the ECU and its relationship with the engine to confidently make any changes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FrozenTows4]

... Arctic Cat's knowledge of what was needed to properly control one of these engines was minimal and their engineers naive to believe they could equal Yamaha's technology.

If that's what Really happened, and I highly doubt it, then Yamaha is at fault for not sharing how to run their engine. Do you really think Yamaha gave Arctic Cat their prize engine and said "now you figure out how to run it for both of us"?

 

[Wannaviper]

I had 2 miles on my 2016 XTX when it was reflashed. It sat out in the trailer at -23 Farenheit overnight. It took several tries, some with backfires, to get it to start, but it did start. My 2014 XTX without the reflash and with its original battery did not turn over as fast, but started on the second try. Substequent "cold starts" on the 2016 have taken two tries, with instant starts when warm.

 

[staggs65]

If that's what Really happened, and I highly doubt it, then Yamaha is at fault for not sharing how to run their engine. Do you really think Yamaha gave Arctic Cat their prize engine and said "now you figure out how to run it for both of us"?

Essentially, yes, although I'm sure Yamaha played a part in it and didn't leave it totally up to cat. But it should have had the Mitsubishi ECU like the Nytro not this junk cat system

 

[Mike P]

Essentially, yes, although I'm sure Yamaha played a part in it and didn't leave it totally up to cat. But it should have had the Mitsubishi ECU like the Nytro not this junk cat system

I would say your on the right track as to the "why" we are seeing issues however as interesting as I find the reasons behind the issues I would find the "fix" a lot more relevant. I believe the focus on solutions could lead to who dropped the ball on the marriage between the two. Mechanical, electrical or fuel and air delivery. Some ones department probably should have seen it coming.
Just my $.02

 

[grizztracks]

I'm making a lot of assumptions (along with others on here) but nothing else is making sense to me on what's going on. It would be nice if a Yamaha rep would come out and make a statement on their involvement in trying to make this right. I don't believe they're ignorant to the issues and I'm sure many of use are wondering how much involvement Yamaha has had in trying to correct these issues being that it's a Cat ECU involved here.

I believe Yamaha was insured that the Arctic Cat ECU would work the best option for this chassis and that they would incorporate the necessary changes to their patented ECU to properly run the 4-stroke engine. Yamaha and Arctic had to hash out an agreement for this partnership of shared parts and because the Cat ECU was the easiest of the two systems to modify Arctic Cat ended up with that task. It probably made sense at the time to both parties.

If you understand the differences in how this engine is wired in the Nytro platform vs Cat's way in the Viper platform you'd see that the Cat ECU is getting to elaborate on it's tasks. The Nytro ECU takes a more direct approach to getting it done correctly. Unfortunately, it looks to me like this problem is beyond a simple fix and in my opinion would require a new ECU and wiring harness similar to that of the Nytro's. Yamaha recently dumped this engine into their side by side and because they stuck with what they know it doesn't have these problems. I recently dropped a Nytro motor and electrical system into the Viper chassis and no issues there. If I had the chance I'd like to see if I could install a Nytro ECU and wiring harness into the Viper minus the engine change.