Trail Performance Gains on STOCK TUNED SW's: Please post up your set-ups

[VX1R]

I wanted to get a thread going for anyone like myself who's interested in getting all the performance that they can get out of their STOCK TUNED SW and uses their sleds primarily for trail riding in a variety of conditions. There has to be a few of us bottom feeders who are happy with the stock HP that Yamaha has provided us and don't use our sleds to race but instead would like to achieve the absolute best performance that we can get using our sleds for big mile trail conditions.

With the stock clutching the biggest area of improvement that I could see was the low end before the boost comes on for better corner to corner performance. Late last season NOS-PRO did some testing on a reverse angle helix: https://ty4stroke.com/threads/tested-the-33-35-reverse-angle-helix.148034/ and it seemed like this was the way to go for a gain on a stock tuned SW.

I started a thread a couple of weeks ago looking for any feedback from anyone who actually tried a reverse angle helix on their STOCK TUNED SW and got some interesting comments from guys running both stock tuned and boosted sleds: https://ty4stroke.com/threads/wonde...es-so-far-using-a-reverse-angle-helix.152000/

With about one and a half seasons so far since the SW has hit the snow there's been quite a few different options for clutching available and it would be interesting to see what everyone has found out so far.

Since there are so many variables in sleds even in stock tuned form, such as all of the different primary and secondary clutch components and belts, I thought that I'd include the template below that everyone can cut and paste to put their info in so that everyone can see the complete "recipe" that you've tried.

Primary Clutch:
Spring:
Weights:
Weight set up:
Rollers:
Secondary Clutch:
Spring:
Spring Wrap:
Helix:
Rollers:
Offset:
Belt:
Gearing:
Track:
Skis:
SW Model:
Most Common Riding Conditions:
Misc. Comments:

If there's anyone who would like to chime in with their own results of different things that you've tried that have improved your STOCK TUNED SW and would like to share your results with others here's your chance.

 

[VX1R]

Here's what I've come up with so far on my stock tuned SW....

Primary Clutch:
Spring: Ulmer Blue dot low engagement spring with 20 kg. preload. Engagement speed approx. 2800 rpm
Weights: STM 60 YS from Ulmer Racing
Weight set up: Heel: 2 washers, Mid: empty, Tip: Tungsten insert
Rollers: Stock Yamaha 14.5mm
Secondary Clutch:
Spring: Dalton Black/Orange
Spring Wrap: 3-3
Helix: Dalton Reverse Angle 32-36
Rollers: Updated Yamaha OEM
Offset: 60.1mm
Belt: Yamaha OEM 8JP
Gearing: Yamaha OEM 21/41
Track: Camso Storm 150 with 1.5" lugs
Skis: SLP Mohawk with 6" carbide
SW Model: 2017 SW LT-X LE
Most Common Riding Conditions: Keweenaw area of the western UP of MI. Variety of snow conditions ranging from hard pack to sugary to fresh powder snow.
Misc. Comments: This clutch set up has been just what I've been looking for to handle a wide variety of snow and trail conditions that I ride in. It has a nice and soft engagement speed yet gives outstanding low end and mid range pull. The sled will upshift with no spikes in rpm, just a nice steady climb to top rpms with a very linear pull. The gas mileage has been approx. 15 mpg in the 547 miles that I was able to test this set up last week. I haven't been able to test the actual belt or clutch temps other than the scientific method of touching them, but both clutches and belt have been cool to the touch with minimal belt wear/belt dust. I have 1112 miles so far on the stock Yamaha 8JP belt and it has worn approx. .1mm so far. This clutch set up has been a great improvement for me over the stock set up and seems to have gained quite a bit of low end grunt out of the corners that makes the sled a lot more fun to drive.

The new Camso Storm 150 track is a perfect match to the performance level of the SW and performs great in a wide variety of snow and trail conditions. The SLP Mohawk skis I feel are the most significant upgrade to the handling of the SW. With proper suspension set up these skis will absolutely make sure that the sled goes where you point in any snow conditions and will not dart in any conditions that I have encountered, all with a very light steering effort. I'm not a very big guy and even after a 200+ mile day this past week I was ready to hit the trail again the next day without any hesitation.

 

[STAIN]

2017 Sidewinder RTX 129
Primary
STOCK spring
G-Force weights set at 77g
16mm rollers

8JP belt
Stock gearing--21-41


Secondary
STOCK spring
G-force adjustable helix set at 60 degrees
STRAIT 45 degree helix

Track--Storm 150

Arctic Cat skis with 6 inch slim jims

Mid height windshield

 

[Snowaddict]

2017 LTX LE studded (3 per bar-combo of doubles and singles on inside only.)
Primary Clutch:
Spring: Thunder Products Orange
Weights: TP (heavy hitters)
Weight set up: as set up by TP minus 1 thin washer in the tip (originally there were 2 in there)
Rollers: Stock
Secondary Clutch:
Spring: Stock
Spring Wrap:3-3
Helix: Dalton 35/39
Rollers: Thunder Products
Offset: stock
Belt: 8JP
Gearing: Stock
Track: Stock
Skis: Stock tuners (will be upgraded in the future)
SW Model: LTX LE
Most Common Riding Conditions: Trails in WI (mostly NE)
Misc. Comments: only ran all stock set up for first 400 miles. Had my secondary machined for coil bind (thanks again @NOS-PRO) then and switched to TP clutch kit and secondary rollers, and 35/39 Helix (thanks to @jonlafon1.) Also, wrapped stock secondary spring to 6-1. This set-up worked well and clutches were only warm to the touch. RPMs were a little low at 8500 on prolonged pull. Best top speed was 108 mph.
Beginning of this season switched to TP orange secondary spring wrapped at 2-3. Clutches were hotter than stock and more so than I liked. RPMs went up a little. But still a tad low. Didn't have much of a chance for top end runs, but the 1 I did have was 100 mph and it just felt like it was somewhat stuck there.
2 weeks go decided to go back to stock secondary spring wrapped at 3-3. Also, removed 1 thin washer from the tip and added Barn of Parts belt adjuster. RPMs went up (8700-8850) and clutches are still only warm. So, far this feels the best. Haven't had a chance to get a top speed run in on this set-up yet. Hopefully, this week. Doing a trip to Rhinelander and surrounding areas.

 

[JPS]

2017 XTX SE 141 CURRENTLY700 MILES ON THE CLOCK, BOUGHT AS LEFT OVER IN NOVEMBER. PRIMARY CLUTCH: WEIGHTS, TP, SPRING- TP ORANGE WITH GLIDE WASHERS, STOCK ROLLERS, DRIVEN CLUTCH: 33/35 TP, ORANGE TP AT 2-3, TP ROLLERS. 8JP BELT, STOCK GEARING, 1.6 TRACK. SKIS : 6.9 PILOT 6 INCH WOODYS . REAR SUSPENSION : HYGEAR PRO LINKAGE, DUAL RATE CENTER SPRING. I RAN SLED STOCK FOR FIRST 200 MILES THEN STARTED TO MESS WITH THE CLUTCHING. SUSPENSION AND SKI CHANGES WERE MADE FROM NEW. SEEMS TO PULL A LITTLE BETTER DOWN LOW TO MID WITH TP CLUTCHING BEST ON LAKE PACKED DOWN 3/4 MILE WOT 113 ON THE DASH WHICH WAS 112 ON PHONE GPS 8700 RPM. I AM GOING TO MAINE THIS WEEK FOR 5 DAYS AND WANTED TO GET RPM UP JUST A BIT TO 8900-9000 SO I MADE SOME CHANGES AGAIN. FIRST I WANTED TO TRY 3-1 ON SECONDARY SPRING SINCE THE TRAILS IN MAINE ARE A BIT FASTER RUNNING AND NOT AS TIGHT AS NY WHERE I USUALLY RIDE LITTLE FASTER UP SHIFT WAS THE THOUGHT AND I STILL NEED TO GET RPM UP BUT WITH LESS SPRING WRAP I TRIED A BIT MORE OFF THE TIP OF THE WEIGHTS. I TOOK THE 2 THIN WASHERS OFF THE TIP. THEY ARE .4 GRAM EACH SO I WILL SEE HOW IT DOES THIS WEEKEND??? ITS ALL A GUESS, NO 2 SLEDS ARE IDENTICAL. SEEMS AFTER ALL THE SCREWING AROUND AND MONEY SPENT ON CLUTCHING THERE IS VERY LITTLE GAIN OVER STOCK . i CAN SAY THAT ON PACKED SNOW WITH MY TRACK AND SUSPENSION SET UP AND MY HUSKY 255LBS ON THE SEAT THIS THING DIGS IN AND PUTS THE POWER TO THE GROUND, VERY LITTLE TRACK SPIN. ​

 

[journeyman]

Here's what I've come up with so far on my stock tuned SW....

Primary Clutch:
Spring: Ulmer Blue dot low engagement spring with 20 kg. preload. Engagement speed approx. 2800 rpm
Weights: STM 60 YS from Ulmer Racing
Weight set up: Heel: 2 washers, Mid: empty, Tip: Tungsten insert with 2 washers
Rollers: Stock Yamaha 14.5mm
Secondary Clutch:
Spring: Dalton Black/Orange
Spring Wrap: 3-3
Helix: Dalton Reverse Angle 32-36
Rollers: Updated Yamaha OEM
Offset: 60.1mm
Belt: Yamaha OEM 8JP
Gearing: Yamaha OEM 21/41
Track: Camso Storm 150 with 1.5" lugs
Skis: SLP Mohawk with 6" carbide
SW Model: 2017 SW LT-X LE
Most Common Riding Conditions: Keweenaw area of the western UP of MI. Variety of snow conditions ranging from hard pack to sugary to fresh powder snow.
Misc. Comments: This clutch set up has been just what I've been looking for to handle a wide variety of snow and trail conditions that I ride in. It has a nice and soft engagement speed yet gives outstanding low end and mid range pull. The sled will upshift with no spikes in rpm, just a nice steady climb to top rpms with a very linear pull. The gas mileage has been approx. 15 mpg in the 547 miles that I was able to test this set up last week. I haven't been able to test the actual belt or clutch temps other than the scientific method of touching them, but both clutches and belt have been cool to the touch with minimal belt wear/belt dust. I have 1112 miles so far on the stock Yamaha 8JP belt and it has worn approx. .1mm so far. This clutch set up has been a great improvement for me over the stock set up and seems to have gained quite a bit of low end grunt out of the corners that makes the sled a lot more fun to drive.

The new Camso Storm 150 track is a perfect match to the performance level of the SW and performs great in a wide variety of snow and trail conditions. The SLP Mohawk skis I feel are the most significant upgrade to the handling of the SW. With proper suspension set up these skis will absolutely make sure that the sled goes where you point in any snow conditions and will not dart in any conditions that I have encountered, all with a very light steering effort. I'm not a very big guy and even after a 200+ mile day this past week I was ready to hit the trail again the next day without any hesitation.

View attachment 137794

Hey, I think I know those guys!!

Don's sled performed wonderfully! I got to take a spin on it last week in the UP. Butter smooth engagement and a linear, solid pull all the way through the power range...and it pulls hard. The combination of that and all the chassis improvements between shocks, the widening kit and Mohawk skis make for a sweet ride that is likely the best I have ever experienced.

 

[almond1000]

Ive got a 2017 ltx se, 8jp belt, stock tune, stock airbox and stock can. 192 studs, cat skis and 9" duece bars, my setup as follows:
Thunder Products kit
Primary:
Orange spring w/ glide washers
Heavy hitters came set up for 270# rider
Seconday;
33/35 reverse angle helix
Tp orange spring
Updated factory rollers.
The sled had some coolant leaks and electrical issues the first 300 miles, now that it seems to be figured out, i got some testing in, originally i was wrapped at 3-3, alot of belt dust and sled just seemed to give up at 105 mph and 8750 rpm, im not sure of the actual distance, it was on the lake with hard packed snow, i would guess maybe 1/4 mile, clutches where hot but touchable. at that time i only had 350 miles on the sled.
I have about 210 miles since then i went to 2-3 wrap, less dust, cooler to touch, the same strech on the lake yesterday and about the same conditions sled ran 111 mph and 8600 rpm, i did get on a plowed ice road with a dusting of snow, on the odometer it was 1/2 mile long, rolling about 30 mph i went wot, it hit 8800, then fell to 8640 rpm and held there, 115 mph, im hoping to get back out there today, try a wrap at 3-1 and see how it likes it, if it does i will pull some weight to get rpm up. All my distance and mph were off the gauage cluster, so take it for what its worth, i didnt have a gps to see how accurate the numbers are.

 

[almond1000]

Well i got out to do some testing today, conditions were 36°f sunny and light south wind.
I started at the 3-2 wrap and did a pull just so i could compare that with the changes i was going to try. This was about 1/2 mile on odometer. Sled at operating temp, 2 pulls, 8620 rpm 114 mph speedo, and gps was 110.01
I put my wrap at 3-1, wot hit 8800 and dropped down to about 8500 rpm. 107 mph gps.
Looked at my hh. There is aluminum bolt and thin washer #2
Brass bolt and thick washer #3
I ended up at aluminum bolt thick washer #2
Brass bolt only #3
Sled pulls hard strait to 8900 and bounces from 8850-8900 for as long as i hold it. Sled seems to hit a wall at 119 speedo. Gps was 115.02

 

[VX1R]

Thanks for posting up your results almond1000. It looks to me that you've got your stocker running pretty darn good. That seems to be a pretty good speed from a stock SW. Good job.

Are you happy with your results so far with the HH's and 33/35 helix? Any plans to do any more testing?

I'm hoping that some others will chime in on this post with their results on their stock SW's. If mother nature cooperates I'd like to get out and try a few other things later this month to see if I can get any more out of my set up and post up the results.

 

[almond1000]

Im pretty happy with my setup now, i was out in the garage tonight just looking things over, im happy to see that belt is riding within 1/2" of the top of the primary, which tells me im shifting out. I think i got it pretty close now

 

[Crossfire12]

Spring:85/280
Weights: stock 74
Weight set up:
Rollers:
Secondary Clutch:11 in STM tuner
Spring:ac green
Spring Wrap:1st hole
Helix:straight 42
Rollers:STM
Offset:1.85 measured according to STM specs.
Belt:112 ac
Gearing:24/50
Track:125
Skis:curves
SW Model: ZR 9000
Most Common Riding Conditions: narrow trails, lakes, upstate NY
Misc. Comments:
Belt and clutches run cool, max rpm 8800, climbs at end low gears, on ice with little snow 114 GPS plan to put sidewinder gears21/41

 

[snoseeker]

I am not much for stock but that is a nice pic

 

[VX1R]

I am not much for stock but that is a nice pic

I was surprised that you were actually able to type the word "stock" in your reply. I figured that word was not even in your vocabulary Mike.

I like the pic too, but it sure is a motley looking crew especially the guy on the blue 'Winder.

 

[ritchie]

Here's what I've come up with so far on my stock tuned SW....

Primary Clutch:
Spring: Ulmer Blue dot low engagement spring with 20 kg. preload. Engagement speed approx. 2800 rpm
Weights: STM 60 YS from Ulmer Racing
Weight set up: Heel: 2 washers, Mid: empty, Tip: Tungsten insert
Rollers: Stock Yamaha 14.5mm
Secondary Clutch:
Spring: Dalton Black/Orange
Spring Wrap: 3-3
Helix: Dalton Reverse Angle 32-36
Rollers: Updated Yamaha OEM
Offset: 60.1mm
Belt: Yamaha OEM 8JP
Gearing: Yamaha OEM 21/41
Track: Camso Storm 150 with 1.5" lugs
Skis: SLP Mohawk with 6" carbide
SW Model: 2017 SW LT-X LE
Most Common Riding Conditions: Keweenaw area of the western UP of MI. Variety of snow conditions ranging from hard pack to sugary to fresh powder snow.
Misc. Comments: This clutch set up has been just what I've been looking for to handle a wide variety of snow and trail conditions that I ride in. It has a nice and soft engagement speed yet gives outstanding low end and mid range pull. The sled will upshift with no spikes in rpm, just a nice steady climb to top rpms with a very linear pull. The gas mileage has been approx. 15 mpg in the 547 miles that I was able to test this set up last week. I haven't been able to test the actual belt or clutch temps other than the scientific method of touching them, but both clutches and belt have been cool to the touch with minimal belt wear/belt dust. I have 1112 miles so far on the stock Yamaha 8JP belt and it has worn approx. .1mm so far. This clutch set up has been a great improvement for me over the stock set up and seems to have gained quite a bit of low end grunt out of the corners that makes the sled a lot more fun to drive.

The new Camso Storm 150 track is a perfect match to the performance level of the SW and performs great in a wide variety of snow and trail conditions. The SLP Mohawk skis I feel are the most significant upgrade to the handling of the SW. With proper suspension set up these skis will absolutely make sure that the sled goes where you point in any snow conditions and will not dart in any conditions that I have encountered, all with a very light steering effort. I'm not a very big guy and even after a 200+ mile day this past week I was ready to hit the trail again the next day without any hesitation.

mind sharing your setup on the Slp Mohawk ski's. which ski mounting hole did you use and rear center shock adjustment etc.

 

[journeyman]

mind sharing your setup on the Slp Mohawk ski's. which ski mounting hole did you use and rear center shock adjustment etc.

I am sure Don will get back to you, he is riding again in the UP with his wife. I think he'll be back later in the week. Keep in mind he has those Hygear shocks front and rear plus a widening kit on the front end so his setup might be different than others.