Viper LTX SE first impressions/review. Update 12-5

[2lapsdown]

Why in the hell AC went away from willwood I'll never understand.

 

[Alpha]

What are the common problems with last years cats with the same chassis besides engine/clutch?

still no cover ontop of brake rotor, thought for sure yammie would make cat add one. We all added them onto our the cats.

I hope the brakes work better then our cats, worst brake "feel" ive ever had on a sled since 90s. My apex brakes were awesome, and my cats just felt wrong.



really hope these sleds are better then our turbos were...they seem to have address most of the issues we had.....

Good write up.
Dan

 

[2lapsdown]

No engine problems....clutches Chinese junk

 

[cannondale27]

I rode the 2012,13 and 14 cats and the brake was HUGELY improved on the 14 I rode(ElTigre 6000) if it is same brake on our Vipers you will not be disappointed was night and day difference from other ProCross. I did however read in Snowtech that Yamaha kept the old AC master. Find that hard to believe though. 1 or 2 finger braking is something most Yamaha guys would never give up.

 

[Alpha]

from what I can tell the master is AC

 

[09nytro]

The one I rode was one finger op , brakes worked just fine .

 

[Alpha]

good to know!

 

[ROCKERDAN]

What are the common problems with last years cats with the same chassis besides engine/clutch?

I did demo the cats last spring, the brakes seemed the same as my cat but hopefully they improve them. they seemed ok on my cat until i was really rolling and needed to bring her down fast, just was not nearly like my apex was. Maybe mine was just bad?

I think we all came to the conclusion the TCL and magic bearings(lol) as we named them are all something that makes the issue. So many people tried other clutching, belts, ect ect, nothing cured it 100%.

Pete knows more about them then most, he comes here periodically, good guy from the apex days(mmtsnowbeast? ) is is name here i think i got it close. He still has his cat and has tried alot, he deals with Frank, who is a great guy who handmakes many custom parts for the turbo, and i bought lots from frank, He makes the little covers that keep all the brake rotor dust off your belt. That rotor being so close to secondary is a poor design.

Do yourself a favor and hangout in the turbo section of HCS every so often, many smart guys over there and Frank will help you guys since you have same chassie pretty much.

I do think these Vipers will NOT have the extreme issues we had, 135hp is so much less then we were all running...we all were running TD stage 4 tunes over 220hp. and the big cat twin motor is mounted to move alot, so the TCL was supposed to take care of belt CtC and it would bend under pressure. Also it would transmit vibration from motor, and also heat to the bearing in TCL. A true clusterfuck of a design. I would bet cat will do away with that TCL junk soon if they are smart, however the chassie will need major beefing up to take the twist of that big twin.

You guys wont see any of that cause your motors are solidly mounted in a beefy cradle. Much better, and I think Yammie engineers watched closely all the issues we had with turbos, and Im sure read my hundreds of posts with all the pictures i posted on my fixes.

So the brake rotor IMO should get a cover, and also keep eye on that damn chaincase....mine leaked/seeped at times...you guys got better gears but even those power gears at 135hp would have worked, what you need to watch for is reverse....that caused cat guys so many problems, and is a horrible design. any pushbutton reverse that is mechanical in design(meaning gears move ect ect, IE: NOT RER) is always gonna be an area to be careful with....

I know pushing a button is easy, but for mechanical revers chaincases give me a LEVER everytime, at least you know it works!!

Will be interesting to see how these work next to the zr7000s...drag,top speed, and belt life will be an interesting comparo this season.

Dan

 

[Alpha]

Rockerdan thanks for the info!

I have yet to test the brakes on my viper but your right just looking at the design it does not looks like its meant for high performance use. The brake rotor is tiny compared to the apex, nytro, and phazer. Its also a solid disc so it can not cool fast enough if it is heated up and I can see it causing brake fade.


Sent a email to my friend Devin. He is an engineer at AC,lets see what his response is.

 

[Alpha]

here is Devins reply. he is an engenier at ac


I guess I haven't heard anything about the brakes having issues. I don't pay attention to forums, just to the dealer reports. You mentioned fade, is that what people are saying, or is it a different issue they have? The Yamaha's do have slightly different brakes, but not because of that(their own cal. that they wanted). Push button reverse did have major issues in 2012, but since then have been fixed and last year we had a really good year for that. Leaky chain cases have been addressed and improved on. Make sure your chain is properly tensioned(manual tensioner in these) and the deflection and alignment on the belt is good

 

[snowbeast]

What are the common problems with last years cats with the same chassis besides engine/clutch?

still no cover ontop of brake rotor, thought for sure yammie would make cat add one. We all added them onto our the cats.

I hope the brakes work better then our cats, worst brake "feel" ive ever had on a sled since 90s. My apex brakes were awesome, and my cats just felt wrong.



really hope these sleds are better then our turbos were...they seem to have address most of the issues we had.....

Good write up.
Dan

The only problem was the belts and chaincase,my opion on the chaincase was a wimpy auto adjust and cheap chain,that has been changed by Yamaha/and cat for 14,also the involute drivers not good,so they changed to exvolute this year too,and should be much better,like dan ststed the cover over the top of the rotor is a good idea,when you blow a belt,the pieces collect down inside of the rotor area,plus when wet snow splashes up to the bottom of the belt,what happens to a wet belt?? So a cover is nice! Guys the brakes work ok,you just cant lock them up one finger,remember grab a complete hand,and she will stop.

 

[Sportsterdanne]

Maybe a bit of topic but how do the Ski doo brake compare to the Arctic since its a similar design (brake on drive shaft) ?

 

[Alpha]

Maybe a bit of topic but how do the Ski doo brake compare to the Arctic since its a similar design (brake on drive shaft) ?

never ridden a newer skidoo but my old mxz 583 seems to work fine

 

[KnappAttack]

Maybe a bit of topic but how do the Ski doo brake compare to the Arctic since its a similar design (brake on drive shaft) ?

Doo brake is a nice one finger opperation like the old Apex. And you can reach the lever. It has plenty of stoping power.

I too had a turbo Cat and can't really explain the brake. It was not a one finger opperation and the lever was quite adistance from the grip. It was just one of the things I didn't like about the Cat. The one on my Cat I also had to pump to have any braking after a longer or hi-speed run. The disc was not warped but it would move the pads away from the disc ofer time. Only thing I coud attribute that to was chassis flex. The Cat brake was for sure lacking and did not have an overabundance of stopping power by any means. Remember the old cable brakes that gripped the driven to slow ya down? OK well, maybe not that bad, but not up to par by todays standards.

Yamaha changed the brakes somehow on the Cat, so they have to be better.

 

[Yamadog]

When I test rode them last spring I was riding pretty hard - dropping way back from the demo ride group and then running hard and throwing all 3 into the turns. There was no concern from the braking on my part I sis feel that the clutching was way oof at that time and the motors were detuned vs the nytros.

1 finger operation was easy and I have small hands. There was a noticeable diff in the bite of the 141" in braking from the short track but all were stable. There was a great push on all 3 sleds in the turns but the wear bars were puny and the shocks were way over inflated for my taste.