Viper starting and mapping problems but not Nytro

[cannondale27]

I've been spending a lot of time lately over on Arctic Chat researching the Bearcat 7000 XT. If I'm not mistaken that has the Yamaha 1049cc, 3 cylinder that you are all talking about. I can tell you that there is no where near the volume of complaints/problems over the last several years that I observe here on TY with the Vipers. Surely they have the same Cat ECUs and programming. The Bearcat is off my list if it is prone to all of the issues you guys have been reporting here.

There have been a number of comments here about the legal agreement between Cat and Yamaha and how it might be playing into Yamaha's response ... or lack of response. I'm surprised I haven't heard about a class action suit. Yamaha's product has not delivered the experience people have a right to expect.

The loyalty of Yamaha owners boggles my mind. Even knowing what had gone down with the Viper you all totally bought in for Sidewinders. I'm glad I'm so old, I don't have much in the game any more and no time to fight. Good luck boys, you deserve better.

Well said. And no Sidewinder in my garage. Waiting for Yamaha. Yukon there is no doubt this whole thing created many bitter feelings and we lost some great people over it Yellowknife comes immediately to my mind. But when riding I like many forget about it all since at least in my case I feel this is still the best Snowmobile Yamaha has ever sold in more ways than its bad and look to the future that the next will better and all Yamaha like promised.

 

[grizztracks]

When it comes to the Yamaha 1049 cc three cylinder engine any Yamaha guy who ran that engine prior to the Yamaha/Cat agreement knew what to expect out of that engine. When it first came out in the Cat chassis most Yamaha guys jumped on it because of some of the down falls of the the Yamaha chassis. Unfortunately the Yamaha engine became less reliable in the Cat chassis which most Arctic guys had no clue about. Also with the Yamaha/Cat agreement the new Viper became a top seller for Yamaha unlike the Arctic Cat version so there would naturally be less talk on the Cat side.

With the introduction of the Sidewinder also came a new Yamaha ECU so the Cat ECU problems went away. Hopefully the rummer of an actually fix to the Viper/7000 problems are more than just a rummer.

 

[cannondale27]

When it comes to the Yamaha 1049 cc three cylinder engine any Yamaha guy who ran that engine prior to the Yamaha/Cat agreement knew what to expect out of that engine. When it first came out in the Cat chassis most Yamaha guys jumped on it because of some of the down falls of the the Yamaha chassis. Unfortunately the Yamaha engine became less reliable in the Cat chassis which most Arctic guys had no clue about. Also with the Yamaha/Cat agreement the new Viper became a top seller for Yamaha unlike the Arctic Cat version so there would naturally be less talk on the Cat side.

With the introduction of the Sidewinder also came a new Yamaha ECU so the Cat ECU problems went away. Hopefully the rummer of an actually fix to the Viper/7000 problems are more than just a rummer.

I hope so too. We also dont have hardly any feedback on 16.5,17,18 and up Vipers since so few were sold. Was a few changes we are not sure of one being the whole engine!

 

[srvfan]

There's one Viper out there that gave up the Cat gauge pod for reliability: https://ty4stroke.com/threads/viper-glider-build.141852/

View attachment 143427

that is mighty impressive and a huge undertaking for sure

 

[Cfpdscott]

I hope so too. We also dont have hardly any feedback on 16.5,17,18 and up Vipers since so few were sold. Was a few changes we are not sure of one being the whole engine!

I have a 16.5 and don't have any complaints other than taking a few try's to start every once and a while which isn't too big of a deal. Mine always isles smooth, sled always stays within 50 Rpms while idleing. Never had a hot start issue and no kickbacks. maube I'm just lucky. Top speed could be better but I'm fine with a constant 90+ and I think the top speed issues are overblown because of the accurate speedometer. My 600etec would consistently hit 105 mph. Was I actually going that fast on a sled that has 15 less hp than my viper? Not a chance

 

[Kenzie]

That aftermarket ecu plug and play or nytro version would be something out of this world amazing. No more crazy idling no altimeter fluctuating hot start issues gone. I do believe a strong battery does help with some of this but route causes point to Ecu.

 

[B.anderson14]

I hope so too. We also dont have hardly any feedback on 16.5,17,18 and up Vipers since so few were sold. Was a few changes we are not sure of one being the whole engine!

I have the 18 and still have the same issues all of you guys are having. Thinking about going to a two stroke again lol

 

[sk-rx1]

because they don't give a darn . they are probably out of sledding after 2020 anyhow...…. it would cost a bunch of $$$$$$ and the only reason to do it would be to keep your customer base , which of course doesn't matter if your going out of business.

Probably a little harsh but essentially this is why I am riding a Cat after Yamaha since 1979. I sure do have a lot of Yamaha clothing to wear out. I did have 2 Vipers, couldn't get over the things that just were not as they should be.

 

[sledder454]

Need snow for concrete opinion on my 14 with 24000kms. I am a firm believer that these sleds do need a good strong battery that helps fix a lot of issues. Even with my nytros I always ran a good quality AGM battery. I just replaced the battery in mine with a brand new AGM and it has never started so quick or ran as smooth compared to the factory yuasa. Not saying that’s the problem but it seemed to help at least with the last start up anyways. Need some miles to see if it stays consistent.

 

[cannondale27]

Need snow for concrete opinion on my 14 with 24000kms. I am a firm believer that these sleds do need a good strong battery that helps fix a lot of issues. Even with my nytros I always ran a good quality AGM battery. I just replaced the battery in mine with a brand new AGM and it has never started so quick or ran as smooth compared to the factory yuasa. Not saying that’s the problem but it seemed to help at least with the last start up anyways. Need some miles to see if it stays consistent.

Once you and I and everyone else is riding we will forget about all this crap guaranteed! Cant wait!

 

[Mike P]

Need snow for concrete opinion on my 14 with 24000kms. I am a firm believer that these sleds do need a good strong battery that helps fix a lot of issues. Even with my nytros I always ran a good quality AGM battery. I just replaced the battery in mine with a brand new AGM and it has never started so quick or ran as smooth compared to the factory yuasa. Not saying that’s the problem but it seemed to help at least with the last start up anyways. Need some miles to see if it stays consistent.

The battery quality may or may not be the issue, the location will, with out a doubt affect the start up and idling of the motor. This subject has been gone over many times. Myself and others have proven the results of improved performance when starting and at idle when the spec voltage required is maintained. Proper battery voltage can prevent some issues that a low voltage condition could cause.
Being able to identify the problem your having and what is causing the issue is only successful if you can diagnose the cause quickly, before the problem widens and affects another systems. A simple example could be old fuel. Old or bad fuel may cause an issue while trying to start your motor. If this cause is not resolved quickly you are likely to have a weak battery after a very short time, leading to slow cranking, the list of issues would continue to build. Bad fuel can also cause a host of other conditions unrelated to what they appear they are. Trouble-shooting an issue does require some knowledge of both the system your engaging and the proper operation and sequence of the event. Paying attention to how your sled is acting and when could help resolve your issue or issues that are causing your problem. When talking to your mechanic any information you may have will help them trouble shoot your problem. They were not there and can only go off what you tell them.
A mechanic can only fix what is broken, based on what is in front of them at the time. Aside from the obvious as in the bad fuel example changing the weak battery would not solve your problem (bad fuel) and you will more than likely have fouled a plug or continue to experience poor performance in some way. Some times its the little things that go unnoticed that can add up to problem.
Strong battery, good clean fuel, proper summer storage with the correct preventive maintenance will go along way.
I still think the battery should be relocated, that would go along way in more consistent starts. Sorry for the rant.

 

[cannondale27]

The battery quality may or may not be the issue, the location will, with out a doubt affect the start up and idling of the motor. This subject has been gone over many times. Myself and others have proven the results of improved performance when starting and at idle when the spec voltage required is maintained. Proper battery voltage can prevent some issues that a low voltage condition could cause.
Being able to identify the problem your having and what is causing the issue is only successful if you can diagnose the cause quickly, before the problem widens and affects another systems. A simple example could be old fuel. Old or bad fuel may cause an issue while trying to start your motor. If this cause is not resolved quickly you are likely to have a weak battery after a very short time, leading to slow cranking, the list of issues would continue to build. Bad fuel can also cause a host of other conditions unrelated to what they appear they are. Trouble-shooting an issue does require some knowledge of both the system your engaging and the proper operation and sequence of the event. Paying attention to how your sled is acting and when could help resolve your issue or issues that are causing your problem. When talking to your mechanic any information you may have will help them trouble shoot your problem. They were not there and can only go off what you tell them.
A mechanic can only fix what is broken, based on what is in front of them at the time. Aside from the obvious as in the bad fuel example changing the weak battery would not solve your problem (bad fuel) and you will more than likely have fouled a plug or continue to experience poor performance in some way. Some times its the little things that go unnoticed that can add up to problem.
Strong battery, good clean fuel, proper summer storage with the correct preventive maintenance will go along way.
I still think the battery should be relocated, that would go along way in more consistent starts. Sorry for the rant.

Very well said!

 

[grizztracks]

I don't believe the battery location is the problem but it wouldn't hurt to have it in the front. The voltage drops from front to back are minimal and the Cat electronics should have been able to handle the starter draw. The Nytro engine and electronics that I dropped in the 2015 Viper chassis still has the battery in the rear and it starts and runs as if it were still in the FX chassis. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Sidewinder with the Yamaha ECU has the battery in the rear and doesn't have the same Viper start problem

 

[blueironranger]

It’s all in the voltage, I let mine sit outside at -20*f and jumped it off my running F150 and it started almost instantly instead of taking 5-10 seconds of cranking and popping. I set my multimeter to record and the battery voltage will drop under 9.5v at the start of cranking when it’s frigid, that’s below the threshold for some ECU to operate properly, especially if they don’t have much internal capacitor storage to smooth the voltage droop.

 

[cannondale27]

It’s all in the voltage, I let mine sit outside at -20*f and jumped it off my running F150 and it started almost instantly instead of taking 5-10 seconds of cranking and popping. I set my multimeter to record and the battery voltage will drop under 9.5v at the start of cranking when it’s frigid, that’s below the threshold for some ECU to operate properly, especially if they don’t have much internal capacitor storage to smooth the voltage droop.

I think we all agree but the ecu should be able to handle it and it can’t.