w8tn4snow
Pro
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- Mar 28, 2008
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- 49
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- Upstate NY
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- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2015 SR Viper LTX DX
Geez , this is worse then getting socks for xmas !
Super Sled
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2009
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- USA
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- Summit X
rhoag said:
I can't help but think there is more --- that this is an updated Vector......
And I will really, really be mad if it comes with a 3 holer engine......
Mike
japex
Extreme
pay attention to other posts,they did say they looked under the tunnel and it was a 4holer, he also said that he had a apex and this would smoke it!
I'm pretty happy with what I have seen/heard so far. Glad they finally got rid of that big blob of a seat and cleaned the lines up on the refresh. Aesthetically there was always something "wrong" with the 06-10 Apex seat. Being a designer, this stuff sticks out to me like a sore thumb. Not sure if it was the location of the color strip or it's shape, but the back of an Apex just looked bulky compared to the front end.
The refresh really helps that out IMO.
EPS, now that is something. It IS a game changer as they say. I had been working on a retro fit EPS system for my Attak for awhile and still may release it for the 06-10 models. What it does is add a HUGE benefit to how the sled works in the corners. EPS doesn't weigh that much, its electric, plus I know they took weight out of the 11 Apex anyway. Put aggressive skis,carbides, pull up limiter straps to get the thing to corner and on a current machine you have to muscle the thing around. That BS is LONG GONE! No more need to call the whaaaaaaambulance cuz those new skis you put on increased the steering effort.
If they have re-done the front geometry like everyone is speculating, even better. I'm constantly comparing my Apex to other models which work better in certain areas and the current Apex geometry can only let you do so much. Measure the angles and everything on a XP, new F series, etc and you'll see.
I did the plugs, airbox mod, crank pickup mod, and all those other little things to my Attak to get the power up to where the 11 is stock. Now take the 11 and do the same thing.. maybe looking at near 180HP or more. A 06 to 10 Apex can hold it's own against most anything with some tweaks and with a 11 your starting at the power level of a tweaked 06-10 plus it weighs less. The other guys will have to up their game now.
The one comment where it went 100MPH doesn't bother me. 3 days ago I had my Attak to 120+, the next day on the same stretch of road it struggled to hit 98. Snow conditions plain and simple.
The intermediate skid length is also a bonus. My 136 is a pushing handful in the corners where a 121 is quicker but I dust them in a 'drag race'. The Nytro XTX is supposedly a cross between but in reality it handles more on the Attak'ish side than a shorty. There is a damn good reason why Cat uses it. I would also expect the 11 "LTX/Attak" version to use the XTX skid for a little better off trail performance.
It has a real windshield like my Attak does and not some useless hood ornament like a GT. Sure it looks cool as hell, but looks don't help when it's -10 and your 80 miles from home.
I think alot of people are/were expecting a total redesign over a refresh. Just not going to happen in today's economy. What your getting is an Apex refresh that is lighter, handles better, has more power, rides better but still retains those things an Apex owner wants.
The refresh really helps that out IMO.
EPS, now that is something. It IS a game changer as they say. I had been working on a retro fit EPS system for my Attak for awhile and still may release it for the 06-10 models. What it does is add a HUGE benefit to how the sled works in the corners. EPS doesn't weigh that much, its electric, plus I know they took weight out of the 11 Apex anyway. Put aggressive skis,carbides, pull up limiter straps to get the thing to corner and on a current machine you have to muscle the thing around. That BS is LONG GONE! No more need to call the whaaaaaaambulance cuz those new skis you put on increased the steering effort.
If they have re-done the front geometry like everyone is speculating, even better. I'm constantly comparing my Apex to other models which work better in certain areas and the current Apex geometry can only let you do so much. Measure the angles and everything on a XP, new F series, etc and you'll see.
I did the plugs, airbox mod, crank pickup mod, and all those other little things to my Attak to get the power up to where the 11 is stock. Now take the 11 and do the same thing.. maybe looking at near 180HP or more. A 06 to 10 Apex can hold it's own against most anything with some tweaks and with a 11 your starting at the power level of a tweaked 06-10 plus it weighs less. The other guys will have to up their game now.
The one comment where it went 100MPH doesn't bother me. 3 days ago I had my Attak to 120+, the next day on the same stretch of road it struggled to hit 98. Snow conditions plain and simple.
The intermediate skid length is also a bonus. My 136 is a pushing handful in the corners where a 121 is quicker but I dust them in a 'drag race'. The Nytro XTX is supposedly a cross between but in reality it handles more on the Attak'ish side than a shorty. There is a damn good reason why Cat uses it. I would also expect the 11 "LTX/Attak" version to use the XTX skid for a little better off trail performance.
It has a real windshield like my Attak does and not some useless hood ornament like a GT. Sure it looks cool as hell, but looks don't help when it's -10 and your 80 miles from home.
I think alot of people are/were expecting a total redesign over a refresh. Just not going to happen in today's economy. What your getting is an Apex refresh that is lighter, handles better, has more power, rides better but still retains those things an Apex owner wants.
Looks like they lost the big booty>made it a little slimmer back there<looks like theres still a lever for reverse,no push button? i could be wrong but i thought they got rid of the toggle on the throttle block for thumb warmers like the vector?after these last 2 weeks of riding im sticking with my apex that i know oh so well + it looks better than this one.i think yamaha is hiding some things..tricky tricky!
I agree with you too RunninRX1.
Handling and the heavy front end were the 2 biggest problems with the current Apex. This appears to fix these issues. I personally don't need more hp for a trail sled and the Apex is a purpose built trail sled.
Handling and the heavy front end were the 2 biggest problems with the current Apex. This appears to fix these issues. I personally don't need more hp for a trail sled and the Apex is a purpose built trail sled.
yzman
Expert
http://cs.amsnow.com/snocs/blogs/news/2 ... nd-of.aspx Some good info . Looks might not have changed , but its everything we love about the apex , but now handles like a dream , and who knows maybe more Horsepower . looks like they have fixed the things most people complaned about the apex , handling and control . If all is true , yamaha has done what everyone told them too
SharkAttak
TY 4 Stroke God
yzman said:
good write up
canada 4
Veteran
I believe what was said was that it stayed with the apex that they were riding with,mmmmm Chris's apex has a yamacharger on it!!!!!!!! 
mclarenyamaha
Pro
it also has exup like some of the motor bikes for better holeshot and midrange, it also gives less noise, i also belive that there are more aggresive cams
morrisond
Expert
[
The one comment where it went 100MPH doesn't bother me. 3 days ago I had my Attak to 120+, the next day on the same stretch of road it struggled to hit 98. Snow conditions plain and simple.
[/quote]
That was me who hit the speed, it wasn't a top end run, it was more just to figure out where it was revving to(10,700-10,800) see whether or not it was 12,500 rpm next gen R1 motor, or a three holder that would have revved below 9,000 rpm as at that point we weren't sure it was 3 or 4. If I had held it much longer I would have been out of field.
I may have heard that it should have been revving at 10,200. What's the power peak on the Apex again? Maybe the clutching was off?
The one comment where it went 100MPH doesn't bother me. 3 days ago I had my Attak to 120+, the next day on the same stretch of road it struggled to hit 98. Snow conditions plain and simple.
[/quote]
That was me who hit the speed, it wasn't a top end run, it was more just to figure out where it was revving to(10,700-10,800) see whether or not it was 12,500 rpm next gen R1 motor, or a three holder that would have revved below 9,000 rpm as at that point we weren't sure it was 3 or 4. If I had held it much longer I would have been out of field.
I may have heard that it should have been revving at 10,200. What's the power peak on the Apex again? Maybe the clutching was off?
MUSKIE
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
.......I CAN tell you that the new Apex does NOT have a Yamcharger on it.canada 4 said:I believe what was said was that it stayed with the apex that they were riding with,mmmmm Chris's apex has a yamacharger on it!!!!!!!!
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
mntvipermn I was laughing my head off at your multiple posts when I finally read that your computor was freaking out LOL
Bang on. Well said.
I enjoyed riding it. As I told Chris, the most significant thing I picked up from this sled was how light it handled the trails. Before anyone shoots off about what a sled has or doesn't, or should, or what's a waste of time and money to improve on, you have to isolate what the sled is intended for, think about the company at the drawing board with a pile of data in front of them pushing them to cover a certain market based on that data, what style of riding you want to cover, who's going to ride it, and why.
This sled, whatever it comes out being titled as is for the average trail rider who wants to sit down, turn the key and ride some significant miles in a day in a relaxed non-agressive manor without feeling fatigued at the end of the ride. I've put roughly 1500 km's on these Ontario trails since xmas and understand why these trails drive the market so much and how most of the riding I do may never see application or consideration when these companies are at the drawing board. This sled fits the bill as being one that will satisfy the needs of the majority of trail riders, not ditch bangers, not powder hounds but trail riders.
The power steering is very interesting. Without knowing how the EPS works on the quads, I assume it must be the same. There's a bit of play in the first inch or two of turning the bars as the EPS kicks into gear based on the sled's speed and likely the throttle position. It is a very smooth system. Around the corners you find yourself easing the bars to turn, the new ski's dig in well, but you don't feel it in your arms. You know how your ski's catch and the carbides dig into a corner and that translates up the forearms? With this system the effort to the bars is light and you don't get the weight back at you when turning the corner. It took me a while to trust it. Usually when you're making that corner and your arms are feeling it, you know if you turn much more, you're either going to slide out or roll the thing from the ski lift. You aren't getting that kind of feedback with EPS, thus I was hesitating with that non-feeling/feedback that you'd normally get through the bars. I was thinking about some advantages afterwards, and one of them is controlling darting. Think about the way the ATV EPS works. You slam a rut or a rock and on a non EPS system that translates in a jolt through the bars and gives your wrists a good whack. EPS takes that hit for you and you don't feel it in the bars. Now apply that to darting on the trails, there's room for play in the ski's that may just help the sled stay controled and eliminate some handle bar fighting that would otherwise be taking place. We had a lot of loose snow, so darting wasn't really a problem on our ride, but I can see where EPS would really help with it.
So the steering is light, feels nice, the rear end is much the same. The in-between track length is very interesting. You aren't slipping around like a 121 yet you've got more maneuvering on this length than a 136. Its about finding the happy medium here. Putting extra rubber on the snow for traction, to handle the torque from the engine, yet provide that corner to corner capability. Its about what little things you can do to improve the riding characteristics. It's like set up for each of you, how many people spend hours trying to find the sweet spot with the adjustments that are available to you from carbides to suspension. Yamaha has dialed in this sled to really try to find that sweet spot out of the box and get the handling improved significantly. Instead of just shock valving and weight transfer, you're talking about more significant changes that make small differences in several area's. It is a relaxed positioned sled. I found the seat nice, a little higher than the others, and good padding, felt layered. There was a comment about the surface material being a little too slippery. The rear mono suspension was decent, the usual range of adjustment. This sled is aimed at the groomed trail, for the rider who is seeking out smooth terrain, not looking to get air or do any stand-up riding.
The handle bar warmers. I want them hotter, cause I think every bar warmer should be able to melt your hands at full power (I need that up north) so I still found them to be weak. At near freezing temps outside I shouldn't have been able to have those turned on full blast. Wasn't there a day when Yamaha's hand warmers with the twist knob for temperature were capable of cooking an egg? I say stick with what works and bring that back!
Tom, can we put pictures and video up? I filmed Chris' intro to the group at the start of the ride, but can't get that online cause I don't have the equipment to do so with me here in Ontario, but I do have some a quicktime movie I could upload to youtube of footage while we were stopped around the sled near the end of the day. I'll work on uploading that at youtube.com/gofenkoa check back Friday, i'll let it upload overnight.
They wouldn't let us take the hood apart but I looked at everything I could. Problem is I don't have a comparable sled so I wasn't sure what I was looking for that would be different.
There's a new graphic package on the guage, we didn't get to see it at night but that might be where it really shines. I did spot the EPS indicator on the LCD guage. I'm not sure if it is a warning indicator to notify you that the EPS is having a problem or not, but it didn't light up while riding, it only appeared when the sled was off and the key was in the on position. I tried to see if I could turn EPS off but couldn't figure it out. I was able to tell the difference from the EPS at idle, turning the bars by hand with the sled off, then starting it and continuing to move the bars, there was some assist there.
Many of the guys liked the windscreen that was on it. What else is under that hood, who knows, but I'm curious about some major weight savings that went on as part of this sleds modifications. I think there could be something significant to report on there.
A new tail light I believe? Again I wasn't comparing it to other machines.
I guess that's all I got, it was a nice handling sled, would love to see how I felt after 300 km's in a day on it vs. anything else out there. Remember the majority of the work/fatigue on the trails is pushing on the bars and shifting your weight...the more of that which is being done for you = a lot less spent energy from the rider. There was a comment about weaker riders really benefiting from this sleds set up as well. Remember all the 'it makes you a better rider' talk that was thrown around when the rider forward platforms came out? Well, this could be another significant enough step forward to apply that statement to again.
A HUGE thank you to Chris for the invite and for setting this up. It was awesome to finally put a face to the name of the guy who I harass on a bi-weekly basis about all my riding woes up north. For those of you who have met Chris, isn't he awesome? You really can't get any better than him. Yamaha has a gem, that's for sure. For those of you who haven't met him, he's a stand up guy who's down to earth and he's one smart cookie. No doubt about it. He knows his stuff, and he's learned it all being hands on. You can't learn what he knows in a text book. Chris, I really appreciate the opportunity you provided us with, and Tyler sends his thanks as well, he's doing a lot of bragging on his damned iphone. It was an absolute pleasure and honour to ride with you and get to know you on a personal and professional basis, and I'll make sure there's more opportunity for that down the road. All of this made the long drive well worth it! You tell me when to write up that proposal to come up to YK and i'll make it a shoe in.
A huge thank you to Yamaha Canada and the folks above and beyond. I can only imagine the nervous hands at the top who see an idea like this being considered and flag it as being too risky. You don't see many, if any things like this, up close and personal, but that doesn't mean they don't have their place, and yes, they can work and pay off in the end, this one sure did. I think Chris covers leaps and bounds breaking ground from the higher ups of a manufacturer where most, if not all won't dare to go. These kind of initiatives are a sign of the times moving forward and I hope they continue. Caution is good, but not taking any risk in the first place isn't going to benefit anyone the way this ride and adventure did.
Here's to the February launch. It was a pleasure riding with all you guys!
Cheers,
YK
RunninRX1 said:
Bang on. Well said.
I enjoyed riding it. As I told Chris, the most significant thing I picked up from this sled was how light it handled the trails. Before anyone shoots off about what a sled has or doesn't, or should, or what's a waste of time and money to improve on, you have to isolate what the sled is intended for, think about the company at the drawing board with a pile of data in front of them pushing them to cover a certain market based on that data, what style of riding you want to cover, who's going to ride it, and why.
This sled, whatever it comes out being titled as is for the average trail rider who wants to sit down, turn the key and ride some significant miles in a day in a relaxed non-agressive manor without feeling fatigued at the end of the ride. I've put roughly 1500 km's on these Ontario trails since xmas and understand why these trails drive the market so much and how most of the riding I do may never see application or consideration when these companies are at the drawing board. This sled fits the bill as being one that will satisfy the needs of the majority of trail riders, not ditch bangers, not powder hounds but trail riders.
The power steering is very interesting. Without knowing how the EPS works on the quads, I assume it must be the same. There's a bit of play in the first inch or two of turning the bars as the EPS kicks into gear based on the sled's speed and likely the throttle position. It is a very smooth system. Around the corners you find yourself easing the bars to turn, the new ski's dig in well, but you don't feel it in your arms. You know how your ski's catch and the carbides dig into a corner and that translates up the forearms? With this system the effort to the bars is light and you don't get the weight back at you when turning the corner. It took me a while to trust it. Usually when you're making that corner and your arms are feeling it, you know if you turn much more, you're either going to slide out or roll the thing from the ski lift. You aren't getting that kind of feedback with EPS, thus I was hesitating with that non-feeling/feedback that you'd normally get through the bars. I was thinking about some advantages afterwards, and one of them is controlling darting. Think about the way the ATV EPS works. You slam a rut or a rock and on a non EPS system that translates in a jolt through the bars and gives your wrists a good whack. EPS takes that hit for you and you don't feel it in the bars. Now apply that to darting on the trails, there's room for play in the ski's that may just help the sled stay controled and eliminate some handle bar fighting that would otherwise be taking place. We had a lot of loose snow, so darting wasn't really a problem on our ride, but I can see where EPS would really help with it.
So the steering is light, feels nice, the rear end is much the same. The in-between track length is very interesting. You aren't slipping around like a 121 yet you've got more maneuvering on this length than a 136. Its about finding the happy medium here. Putting extra rubber on the snow for traction, to handle the torque from the engine, yet provide that corner to corner capability. Its about what little things you can do to improve the riding characteristics. It's like set up for each of you, how many people spend hours trying to find the sweet spot with the adjustments that are available to you from carbides to suspension. Yamaha has dialed in this sled to really try to find that sweet spot out of the box and get the handling improved significantly. Instead of just shock valving and weight transfer, you're talking about more significant changes that make small differences in several area's. It is a relaxed positioned sled. I found the seat nice, a little higher than the others, and good padding, felt layered. There was a comment about the surface material being a little too slippery. The rear mono suspension was decent, the usual range of adjustment. This sled is aimed at the groomed trail, for the rider who is seeking out smooth terrain, not looking to get air or do any stand-up riding.
The handle bar warmers. I want them hotter, cause I think every bar warmer should be able to melt your hands at full power (I need that up north) so I still found them to be weak. At near freezing temps outside I shouldn't have been able to have those turned on full blast. Wasn't there a day when Yamaha's hand warmers with the twist knob for temperature were capable of cooking an egg? I say stick with what works and bring that back!
Tom, can we put pictures and video up? I filmed Chris' intro to the group at the start of the ride, but can't get that online cause I don't have the equipment to do so with me here in Ontario, but I do have some a quicktime movie I could upload to youtube of footage while we were stopped around the sled near the end of the day. I'll work on uploading that at youtube.com/gofenkoa check back Friday, i'll let it upload overnight.
They wouldn't let us take the hood apart but I looked at everything I could. Problem is I don't have a comparable sled so I wasn't sure what I was looking for that would be different.
There's a new graphic package on the guage, we didn't get to see it at night but that might be where it really shines. I did spot the EPS indicator on the LCD guage. I'm not sure if it is a warning indicator to notify you that the EPS is having a problem or not, but it didn't light up while riding, it only appeared when the sled was off and the key was in the on position. I tried to see if I could turn EPS off but couldn't figure it out. I was able to tell the difference from the EPS at idle, turning the bars by hand with the sled off, then starting it and continuing to move the bars, there was some assist there.
Many of the guys liked the windscreen that was on it. What else is under that hood, who knows, but I'm curious about some major weight savings that went on as part of this sleds modifications. I think there could be something significant to report on there.
A new tail light I believe? Again I wasn't comparing it to other machines.
I guess that's all I got, it was a nice handling sled, would love to see how I felt after 300 km's in a day on it vs. anything else out there. Remember the majority of the work/fatigue on the trails is pushing on the bars and shifting your weight...the more of that which is being done for you = a lot less spent energy from the rider. There was a comment about weaker riders really benefiting from this sleds set up as well. Remember all the 'it makes you a better rider' talk that was thrown around when the rider forward platforms came out? Well, this could be another significant enough step forward to apply that statement to again.
A HUGE thank you to Chris for the invite and for setting this up. It was awesome to finally put a face to the name of the guy who I harass on a bi-weekly basis about all my riding woes up north. For those of you who have met Chris, isn't he awesome? You really can't get any better than him. Yamaha has a gem, that's for sure. For those of you who haven't met him, he's a stand up guy who's down to earth and he's one smart cookie. No doubt about it. He knows his stuff, and he's learned it all being hands on. You can't learn what he knows in a text book. Chris, I really appreciate the opportunity you provided us with, and Tyler sends his thanks as well, he's doing a lot of bragging on his damned iphone. It was an absolute pleasure and honour to ride with you and get to know you on a personal and professional basis, and I'll make sure there's more opportunity for that down the road. All of this made the long drive well worth it! You tell me when to write up that proposal to come up to YK and i'll make it a shoe in.
A huge thank you to Yamaha Canada and the folks above and beyond. I can only imagine the nervous hands at the top who see an idea like this being considered and flag it as being too risky. You don't see many, if any things like this, up close and personal, but that doesn't mean they don't have their place, and yes, they can work and pay off in the end, this one sure did. I think Chris covers leaps and bounds breaking ground from the higher ups of a manufacturer where most, if not all won't dare to go. These kind of initiatives are a sign of the times moving forward and I hope they continue. Caution is good, but not taking any risk in the first place isn't going to benefit anyone the way this ride and adventure did.
Here's to the February launch. It was a pleasure riding with all you guys!
Cheers,
YK
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
here's pics...
I guess i put in some wrong links, ignore those. i'm tired and going to bed. Riding in the morning don't ya know.
I guess i put in some wrong links, ignore those. i'm tired and going to bed. Riding in the morning don't ya know.
