Controversy, stud or dont stud

[yamadoo]

I find this very interesting. I have a specific memory that makes me want to have studs as I have since 99, pre 99 no studs lots of miles.
We were riding forest service roads and for miles lots of snow, great conditions and the speeds built up. Then we crested a ridge and had a sweeping left, with ice. So there I am trying to both catch the rear end before she loops and still keep turning Left because the trees on the right look "solid". THank God I was able slowly scrub off the speed, make the corner come to a complete stop and breath. THe sled I was following comes back and asks whats wrong, I explain and he says what ICE?
He was studded.

Now some will say, your fault to fast, I agree, but I would be safer with studs.

I do not buy this I will drive more stupid just because I have studs. I think I will be safer in MORE CONDITIONS because I have studs. I take safety very seriously and drive on the right all the TIME. A corner were I leave my side is a mistake!

So in sum, I think we are SAFER IN MORE CONDITIONS when studded and I/we are smart or stupid to the same degree studded or not.
Stupid is as stupid does to mis quote the great Forrest Gump.

Yamadoo

 

[RTX]

red800 i have no idea where you picked up that idea from my post
if you re-read my post i said they are both traction control devices.
plain and simple traction control devises.
if this helps you, think or it as a car with a snowtire on it vs a car with no snowtire.
the point i tried to make is that a carbide on your ski is a traction control devise and everyone that has ridden a sled understands it's importance. i feel that studs play the same roll as carbides. they are traction control devices and the most important thing on a trail is control of your sled / traction.
I hope this helps to clarify things for you.

 

[Slush Monster]

Here in northern wisconsin the trails have pretty good snow cover and are groomed very well. The sleds travel so fast that the danger level is extremly high. There have been ALOT of deaths in this area last winter, we notice alot of rather large groups traveling at extremly high rates of speed with alot of the rearward sleds trying desparetly to catch up. Just like a race. The locals in the bunch I ride with have all resorted to riding the lakes, power lines and swamps, we have tons. We have decided after many near misses that these people have lost there minds. Many of the land owners around here are closing there land to the snowmobile trails due to the the noise late at night (drunks racing at 2 in the morning) and the dangerous conditions. Alot of snowmobilers just plain NEED to slow down. I am sure you guys have all seen some of these groups. Just think what the landowner riding trails that are on his land is thinking when he get sped past without warning or nearly run off the trail. This stuff does happen. Chances are if you have ridden in northern wisconsin you have ridden across our familys land. We stay off this part of our land in the winter--- ironic. It is my opinion that studs give you the feeling that you can push it a little more, maby that is ok, but are you the one that the rest in your group are trying to catch.

 

[Sled Dog]

No I am a guy who rides and has a blast doing it at the speed I know is safe for me and anyone else cause at that speed I am in total control. You sound like one of the guys who think the trails are your own speedway. Yes I do let people pass me all the time.

You passed judgement over nothing....("it sounds like you need to slow down"), so forgive me if I thought you came off as one of those judgemental types who thinks they set the trail pace. I ride with studs because they give me more control, safety and performance. And in 36 years of snowmobiling, I've never wrecked a sled, anyone elses, or have been a menace on the trail. I'd like to think that's not an accident.

Been riding for 35 years myself and I have never had studs on and low and behold I too have not had a wreck hit someone elses sled or what have you. I also usually keep my sled stock if you drive slow you dont need them. I have gone down lots of icy hills all I have ever done is get off the trail if I can or run the skis up the ridge on the right side. If there is nothing in front of you just keep it straight and dont brake.

 

[1CrazySledder]

I love opinions...lmao You guys crack me up. I would hate to bring this subject up in a bar at night after the ride, what a conversation that would be. I'd buy a ticket to that. I have to say something smart, just because I feel left out, so here goes...
I run studs, and am thankful for them because when I come up on you all doing 30 mph because you have no studs and are being"safe", I can stop my sled from rearending your %*s. LOL

1CS

 

[welterracer]

Guys you dont buy sleds with 150 hp and drive 20mph everywhere do ya...??

The Ripsaw track is an awsome track, but in a icy condition you MUST HAVE STUDS!!

Studs have saved my life 100s of times!! I WILL NEVER RIDE WITHOUT THEM AGAIN!!

I almost had a guy rip the front end of my sled off when he clipped me at 55mph.. and if it wasnt for the studs in my track i would never had stopped in time!

You can say you shouldnt ride that fast.. BUT YOU CANNOT CONTROL OTHER RIDERS ON THE TRAILS.. Hense why you need studs!!

Studs= Safety

 

[impalapower]

Studs help on ice. The old Yamaha tracks needed studs because there were no lugs.

 

[LazyBastard]

Another thing you have to consider when thinking about studding is STEERING.

FACT: STUDS MAKE STEERING HARDER AND LESS RESPONSIVE. If some maniac is barreling towards you at 3 times the safe speed, you damned well want to be able to steer around him. FAST.

FACT: STUDS GIVE YOU INSIDE SKI LIFT.
This is because the track prefers to keep going in a straight line rather than following the skis.

 

[snowbeast]

Easy solution lb match your carbide to your studs,if you are not sure how to do this,read the manufacturers recomended carbid length per there stud qt...

 

[wolfie]

Another thing you have to consider when thinking about studding is STEERING.

FACT: STUDS MAKE STEERING HARDER AND LESS RESPONSIVE. If some maniac is barreling towards you at 3 times the safe speed, you damned well want to be able to steer around him. FAST.

FACT: STUDS GIVE YOU INSIDE SKI LIFT.
This is because the track prefers to keep going in a straight line rather than following the skis.

Steering harder implies more steering effort, which is different than less responsive. The truth of the matter is you need longer carbides to compensate for the studs. You can also compensate the effect of studs to a small degree by adding ski pressure to the existing carbides. The recommended solution is adding longer carbides, to increase control. If some maniac is barreling towards me, I want full control, and that includes studs to stop quicker and good carbides to steer around him if need be. And any sledder worth his salt knows that he can adjust his skid to minimize or eliminate ski lift. You seem to be implying that studs make the sled harder to control, and that, frankly, is nonsense.

 

[Superman]

Studs= Safety

I agree completely. Carbide studs digging into ICE can and will help preventing accidents.

 

[LazyBastard]

More carbide doesn't help. Carbide needs ICE to dig into, otherwise it does nothing. What happens if you are actually on SNOW.

Oh yeah... more effort = less responsive.

And having the thing pop up onto one ski sure doesn't help you steer in an emergency.

 

[sledheadgeorge]

More carbide doesn't help. Carbide needs ICE to dig into, otherwise it does nothing. What happens if you are actually on SNOW.

Oh yeah... more effort = less responsive.

And having the thing pop up onto one ski sure doesn't help you steer in an emergency.

The same applies to studs. They don't do anything in the deep snow.

 

[4Fighter]

ok another senario try to stop w/out studs when the road you are about to stop for is coming up from a very steep hill and is on the crown,in other words the road is crowned on both sides and you are aproaching from down the embankment and you would need very good speed to make the hill w/out studs,but now you need to stop very quickly at the top so you dont end up in the middle of the road and oncoming traffic,this is very real here in fort kent maine,we have alot of steep grades w/roads just on the other side and more times than not ice foarms on the hill,why because someone forgot to stud there sled and spun all the snow from the trail,do what you want but i will never run w/out studs for very long,i might give it a try and the next week find myself studding from some clode encounter,down here in southern maine where i live and ride when i cant travel,we have alot of rain that turns everything to ice so w/out studs would be stupid.

:ORC I think we're onto something here. Studless is fine until gravity starts working against you.

Try climbing an icy hill without studs from a short approach where you can't get enough speed or traction at the bottom. While you're sliding backwards, down a hill, into on-coming sleds with studs that are impatient and trying to go around you, the rest of your buddy's, who had studs, are waiting at the top.

In the Soo, at the I-75 tunnel, I've seen guys try to go around the ice by riding the sides of the hill and they end-up getting stuck in the ravine or brush. I've even seen riders go backwards, on their bellys, down the icy slopes, while hanging onto the rear bumpers of their wife's sled. This hill gets so icy that you can't even walk up it.

The Rip-saw is a great track, but bare rubber on icy, steep, grades just doesn't work. Not having studs is like NOT having anti-lock brakes on your car in the winter, or driving with slicks in the rain.

 

[wolfie]

More carbide doesn't help. Carbide needs ICE to dig into, otherwise it does nothing. What happens if you are actually on SNOW.

Oh yeah... more effort = less responsive.

And having the thing pop up onto one ski sure doesn't help you steer in an emergency.

:ORC Enjoy trying to rationalize that having no studs are safer, you're just wrong.