TurboJamie
TY 4 Stroke God
Well at least we know what it is and that its not doing any harm or causing you anything other than a slight annoyance. Think of yourself as lucky as it appears you have a sled making more hp than the others. You have a couple quick options which might band aid fix it just for testing purposes. You could verify the stock secondary spring positions ( I am not sure the degreese it ships at) and back it off 10*
IE Yamaha has two numbers on their secondary and helix. So for instance if its in #3 and #2 you would have 60* of wrap. You could reduce this to 50* which will slow upshift and might cure the problem.
Hopefully this makes sense to you and you can proceed how you feel most comfortable with. You could also add some weight to the stock weights via yamaha rivets this might stop the issue as well. Lots of ways to skin the cat so to speak.
IE Yamaha has two numbers on their secondary and helix. So for instance if its in #3 and #2 you would have 60* of wrap. You could reduce this to 50* which will slow upshift and might cure the problem.
Hopefully this makes sense to you and you can proceed how you feel most comfortable with. You could also add some weight to the stock weights via yamaha rivets this might stop the issue as well. Lots of ways to skin the cat so to speak.
I agree. Here is what I'm going to try. I spoke with Hauck Performance today and he was familiar with the problem. He said he has a steeper helix and a different spring for the secondary. He said it will smooth it out quite a bit and will reduce the RPMs to about 8900 max.
I ordered one and spoke with my dealer. They are going to install it for free and if it fixes the problem they will get Yamaha to cover the parts. I think this is a win win for me. If it cures it I will get a better performing secondary for no charge.
Sound about right TJ?
I went and took a look at the secondary and here is what I found.
The clutch face has two sets of numbers. 0 & 3 and 6 & 9 and the spring is in the number 6 hole. On the back set of numbers 1,2 and 3 the number 1 has the blue marker line on it. I'm assuming this is the "active" number. Man, that was difficult to explain since I do not know the technical terms for those parts. Make sense?
I would try changing it myself but I do not have a torque wrench which makes getting the nuts tightened correctly difficult.
So when you back it off 10 degrees what holes would you use? Or just wait till my new parts come from Hauck Performance and use them?
I ordered one and spoke with my dealer. They are going to install it for free and if it fixes the problem they will get Yamaha to cover the parts. I think this is a win win for me. If it cures it I will get a better performing secondary for no charge.
Sound about right TJ?
I went and took a look at the secondary and here is what I found.
The clutch face has two sets of numbers. 0 & 3 and 6 & 9 and the spring is in the number 6 hole. On the back set of numbers 1,2 and 3 the number 1 has the blue marker line on it. I'm assuming this is the "active" number. Man, that was difficult to explain since I do not know the technical terms for those parts. Make sense?
I would try changing it myself but I do not have a torque wrench which makes getting the nuts tightened correctly difficult.
So when you back it off 10 degrees what holes would you use? Or just wait till my new parts come from Hauck Performance and use them?
TurboJamie
TY 4 Stroke God
Sounds like a good deal, yes a steeper helix angle is just yet another way to skin the cat. You will slow the upshift with a steeper angle. Bare in mind also changing the spring and helix will change the entire shift curve. Slowing down the shift like you are going to do, also effects back shift when you get back on it so keep that in mind.
Your helix is set at 60* wrap by the sounds of it. I am not sure without looking at a helix if you can go lower than 60* wrap. If there is a lower number on the helix say 5 and you put it in 5 and 1 then it would be 50* wrap.
I would not concern myself with a tq wrench for a small job like this and rarely do I use one on anything other than an engine rebuild, or installing a primary clutch, but I have also been a wrench my whole life so I know by now the feel.
Sounds like you are on the right pathway though and should have it patched up in no time.
Your helix is set at 60* wrap by the sounds of it. I am not sure without looking at a helix if you can go lower than 60* wrap. If there is a lower number on the helix say 5 and you put it in 5 and 1 then it would be 50* wrap.
I would not concern myself with a tq wrench for a small job like this and rarely do I use one on anything other than an engine rebuild, or installing a primary clutch, but I have also been a wrench my whole life so I know by now the feel.
Sounds like you are on the right pathway though and should have it patched up in no time.
MNUser said:
Thanks TJ. I will wait till the new parts come and see what the outcome is.
Since there was no 5 on the helix I'm not sure what number I would use. All there was was a 0 & 3 and a 6 & 9. I do see a pattern. Logic would say going up to 9 would increase the degrees and going down to 3 would decrease the degrees. All the while leaving the back on 1. I tried to google it but was unable to find anything.
I need to go to clutch school.
Since there was no 5 on the helix I'm not sure what number I would use. All there was was a 0 & 3 and a 6 & 9. I do see a pattern. Logic would say going up to 9 would increase the degrees and going down to 3 would decrease the degrees. All the while leaving the back on 1. I tried to google it but was unable to find anything.
I need to go to clutch school.
TurboJamie
TY 4 Stroke God
So the Zero and say 3 on the back side would be 30* wrap probably way too low, but maybe not. 6 & 9 would be too high.
Yea that is what I was thinking. I'm going to wait for the parts and see what it is like after they are changed out.
All in all, the sled is a blast to ride. Quick and handles great. When rolling down the trail you never experience the over rev. It is going to be super once I nail down thus problem. We are close. I know it in the clutching.
All in all, the sled is a blast to ride. Quick and handles great. When rolling down the trail you never experience the over rev. It is going to be super once I nail down thus problem. We are close. I know it in the clutching.
canadianhunter
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Maybe I got it wrong but I thought 6 and 1 = 70 degrees and 3 and 3 = 60 degrees
My 06 Rage service manual says " Sheave hole number + spring seat hole number x 10 = degrees "
My 06 Rage service manual says " Sheave hole number + spring seat hole number x 10 = degrees "
Secondary wind wont be enough. Dont bother. Add weight to the primary weights.
TurboJamie
TY 4 Stroke God
I could easily be wrong. I set em with a fish scale no the wrap degreese.canadianhunter said:
Thanks for the suggestion CannonDale. What size weights would you suggest? If this does not make a difference I will have to look at that for an option. Like I stated earlier it over revs at about 9200. I need to get that down to about 8900ish so the limiter does not kick in.
Look at the stock weights. See what type rivet is in the tip if its empty or aluminum go with the biggest steel rivet Yamaha offers. Should put you right on. If it has it already you will have to get a kit. I always was told to control max rpm with the primary for best results but I am no expert.
STAIN
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Usually with primary weight 1 gram will equal @200 rpm. I would pull a primary weight and check the weight then add 2 grams to front hole. You could adjust RPM with your helix but that seems a little backward. As TURK always said---" adjust your RPM with the primary and adjust your shift rate with your secondary. "--
I am just waiting for my motor to break in a little more before in install my Draggin-Fly set up I had on my Nytro,
I am just waiting for my motor to break in a little more before in install my Draggin-Fly set up I had on my Nytro,
Thanks for replying. I spoke with the guys at Hauck Performance yesterday for quite a bit. They said they had seen three Vipers with this same issue. They attacked all three with a new steeper helix and the said it took care of the problem and improved shifting by quite a bit.
I will report back. If it does not address the problem I will add a little weight to the primary. If I go that route I will visit with Ulmer Racing first and look at upgrading to one of their kits.
I will report back. If it does not address the problem I will add a little weight to the primary. If I go that route I will visit with Ulmer Racing first and look at upgrading to one of their kits.
canadianhunter
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I agreecannondale27 said:
Even on my old 06 Rage went from 70 to 60 degrees and it only did a little.
TurboJamie
TY 4 Stroke God
Well because I like you I went to all the trouble of taking a picture uploading it and posting it to this thread to help you understand the problem with your sled and a much simpler solution than what has been presented to you.
The picture below is of a factory Viper weight, as you can see there are two heavy steel rivets in the bottom and mid position and one one lighter small rivet in the tip. A simple solution for you would be to remove the weights from your primary clutch, drill the head off the small rivet and drive it out with a hammer and punch. Then install a heavier rivet from yamaha available at your local dealer and likely in stock. Simply install the heaviest rivet in the top hole of the weight and problem solved.
The picture below is of a factory Viper weight, as you can see there are two heavy steel rivets in the bottom and mid position and one one lighter small rivet in the tip. A simple solution for you would be to remove the weights from your primary clutch, drill the head off the small rivet and drive it out with a hammer and punch. Then install a heavier rivet from yamaha available at your local dealer and likely in stock. Simply install the heaviest rivet in the top hole of the weight and problem solved.
