How BIG of deal will the Sidewinder be to the History of sledding / Yamaha?

[Mighty]

I'm a bit puzzled by Cat loosing shares to the Sidewinder. They have the same sled the T-Cat. How the sales of that sled is doing I don't know but I know one Cat guy here buying a T-Cat. Personally if I had to make a choice between the two I'd buy the T-Cat. I like the looks better and its the same sled.

I had a 2016 zr9000. I ordered a sidewinder because I wanted Yamaha clutching

 

[Mike P]

Be careful what you wish for. Everyone wants more power, better handling, lighter weight, and more technology and then complains about the price of a new sled. In my opinion the snowmobile consumer has handcuffed the oems into either pricing a majority of people out of the sport or recieving low profit margins. It's to the point if an oem doesn't come out with something new and groundbreaking every other year they are put on be back burner and people move on to the next best thing

I could not agree more. The trend does seem to be similar to an arms race with the end users paying for it. The manufactures are creating higher end units that really, at this time seem better suited for the race track environment than coming at me on a trail in the woods. In other industries the leading edge "stuff" is usually held back, either to expensive or to advanced for the industry at the time.

 

[AXR]

Personally I think anyone that pre ordered a T-Cat over an LE Winder is crazy. They are not the same. The T-Cat lacks the shock package, lacks the RR strengthening. The clutching is different (debatable what one is better at this time). But hands down the shocks are a much better setup on the LE Winder. To be honest I think the Cat RR is a much better choice then the T-Cat and a good deal cheaper. The only advantage you get with the T-Cat is the name, the colors and the higher price. Oh and if comparing to the RR the heated seat...(whats that like $300 lol)

 

[Sasquatch]

Personally I think anyone that pre ordered a T-Cat over an LE Winder is crazy. They are not the same. The T-Cat lacks the shock package, lacks the RR strengthening. The clutching is different (debatable what one is better at this time). But hands down the shocks are a much better setup on the LE Winder. To be honest I think the Cat RR is a much better choice then the T-Cat and a good deal cheaper. The only advantage you get with the T-Cat is the name, the colors and the higher price. Oh and if comparing to the RR the heated seat...(whats that like $300 lol)

But sometimes its the motor, the name and the color that matters. Not everyone wants a LE or RR, that's why both Cat and Yamaha make different models! If Yamaha stuck the SRX name on a turbo chassis there are Yamaha faithful that would line up for the name!

 

[super_rash]

Clutching on the 9000's last year was a catastrophy... so a lot of guys will go to yam just for the clutching... and if you don't double the number of 9000 buyers, then they will have to be less if half of them go to the sidewinder...

 

[AXR]

But sometimes its the motor, the name and the color that matters. Not everyone wants a LE or RR, that's why both Cat and Yamaha make different models! If Yamaha stuck the SRX name on a turbo chassis there are Yamaha faithful that would line up for the name!

I understand those that bleed green will be looking at the t-cat. But in reality if they are looking at that they 'think' they are looking at the baddest cat in the line up as the price also reflects. The problem with that though is you get a much better overall package in the RR if you are talking cat for a lesser price. The main differences in the RR vs the t-cat: rr has: all qs3R kashima coated shocks, stronger rails, lightweight break disc. The t-cat has: tunnel flares std., heated seat., and says 'thunder cat'. T-cat is $150 more msrp. The cost of those shocks/rails/break disc well out weigh the tunnel flares, heated seat, color and name. On the T-cat. The reason the Yamaha guys pre ordered the LE's were for those shocks and skid. While Cat's big pre order gives someone a lesser model at a higher price compared to their other offerings. The T-cat is the same as the Limited but with different colors and name and is $250 more msrp.

I just think if you are going to tote your #1 sled as a premium it should be that and not just a marketing thing. Yamaha got that right with their LE models. I have to laugh every time I hear people talk about the Thunder Cat and how awe inspiring they seem to think it is.... It is really funny that you have to spring order a t-cat and can buy the rr anytime and get an overall better value.

rant over

 

[Sasquatch]

Smiles! Green bleeders will probably buy green Blue bleeders buy Blue. I like red and black myself. My buddy once paid 300 bucks more for a green T-Cat on spring order and could have bought a black one off the floor for a thousand off and also saved the 300 bucks.

Also I have to add the T-Cat was never known for cross country and was usually bought for the High Horsepower Lake racer touring type who wanted a better ride and therefore never pounded the hell out of it. If I wanted to save money I'd buy the LXR as I like the looks of it as well. See I buy a new sled I have to be able to look at it. Cat green does nothing for me and Yamaha Blue does not as well. Now some may say my Apex is blue and they would be right but its a deep blue metallic and although I really wanted the red Apex I could not find a non current red sled and believe me I looked. I had found one for just under a thousand more then the blue and was going to buy it even though it was a more money and 12 hours out of my way to pick it up. I was to late it was sold!

Laugh at me or anyone else if you wish but its a personal choice which sled you buy. If your choice was the best choice for your riding then you made a good choice and will be happy. If someone else buys a different sled (and they make many models for that reason) and they are happy good for them. If I had to choose a Yamaha Sidewinder I would have to go with the Red XTX 700 dollars then your with a 137 inch track, that would be my choice! I could like that red almost!

 

[AXR]

If I wanted to save money I'd buy the LXR as I like the looks of it as well. See I buy a new sled I have to be able to look at it.

Yes the LXR is less $ but it also has a lesser feature set. I have no problem with that... The T-cat is the most $ and is the 'limited spring order' and has less features then the cheaper buy me anytime model. That's my point. If you or anyone were to go cat and were looking at their top tier sled (in the 137) you are basically getting screwed vs the top tier offering from Yamaha (I am comparing to Yamaha because it's the same sled).

I know people will buy what they like and what they like is not what I like. I am just stating the facts. And that I think it's crazy to go the t-cat route 'based on its offerings vs the others by that OEM in that 137 class'. If an OEM offers a limited edition product it should be the best of the lineup with a premium feature set( color does not matter. Some like this color some like that color.). Yamaha got that part right (They even offer their limited edition in 2 colors if you want to base this on color alone). Cat being cat, chose to go the 'as long as we use a cool name and different gfx package the public will be ok with it'. The jokes on the consumer. When producing a product you can't just go by the color. Yes you and many others may like the color of this sled or that sled. The same can be said for those that do not like the color. Color can be argued all day long what one is better. But better components do not lie and can not be judged based on how something looks to you or anyone. Tech SHOULD drive price not gfx. I highly doubt Cat based their marketing on the color of that T-cat. I do bet they based it on the name and in knowing that the vast majority of the public now days is only interested in brand/model name. Point is they are taking advantage of their customers and not giving them the top features for their customers dollar.

If I had to choose a Yamaha Sidewinder I would have to go with the Red XTX 700 dollars then your with a 137 inch track, that would be my choice! I could like that red almost!

That's great that you are interested in the xtx. Though that does not apply to this at all. That is a different sled with a different style of riding and is lacking the package that I was speaking of. So......... it should cost less and does.. I really don't see how saying you would buy a cheaper sled with less tech' goes along side talk about a company offering a HIGHER price sled with less tech' applies at all. Um isn't that how the #'s should work? LOL

Now if you want to talk about the best sled offered in the 137 Yamaha crossover line then Yes the red xtx LE is just that. Not because it's red. But because it has a much better shock package then the 137 xtx SE in blue or grey. With that LE package though comes that extra $400 for the shock package, not for that red plastic.

I'm done stating my point. If it's not understood by now then I can't be of any more help. If someone is ok with paying more for less that's fine with me. If it makes them happy then more power to them. I am inclined to look beyond the smoke and mirror show and look to compare apples to pears. Not red apples to green apples.

 

[Sasquatch]

Yes the LXR is less $ but it also has a lesser feature set. I have no problem with that... The T-cat is the most $ and is the 'limited spring order' and has less features then the cheaper buy me anytime model. That's my point. If you or anyone were to go cat and were looking at their top tier sled (in the 137) you are basically getting screwed vs the top tier offering from Yamaha (I am comparing to Yamaha because it's the same sled).

I know people will buy what they like and what they like is not what I like. I am just stating the facts. And that I think it's crazy to go the t-cat route 'based on its offerings vs the others by that OEM in that 137 class'. If an OEM offers a limited edition product it should be the best of the lineup with a premium feature set( color does not matter. Some like this color some like that color.). Yamaha got that part right (They even offer their limited edition in 2 colors if you want to base this on color alone). Cat being cat, chose to go the 'as long as we use a cool name and different gfx package the public will be ok with it'. The jokes on the consumer. When producing a product you can't just go by the color. Yes you and many others may like the color of this sled or that sled. The same can be said for those that do not like the color. Color can be argued all day long what one is better. But better components do not lie and can not be judged based on how something looks to you or anyone. Tech SHOULD drive price not gfx. I highly doubt Cat based their marketing on the color of that T-cat. I do bet they based it on the name and in knowing that the vast majority of the public now days is only interested in brand/model name. Point is they are taking advantage of their customers and not giving them the top features for their customers dollar.




That's great that you are interested in the xtx. Though that does not apply to this at all. That is a different sled with a different style of riding and is lacking the package that I was speaking of. So......... it should cost less and does.. I really don't see how saying you would buy a cheaper sled with less tech' goes along side talk about a company offering a HIGHER price sled with less tech' applies at all. Um isn't that how the #'s should work? LOL

Now if you want to talk about the best sled offered in the 137 Yamaha crossover line then Yes the red xtx LE is just that. Not because it's red. But because it has a much better shock package then the 137 xtx SE in blue or grey. With that LE package though comes that extra $400 for the shock package, not for that red plastic.

I'm done stating my point. If it's not understood by now then I can't be of any more help. If someone is ok with paying more for less that's fine with me. If it makes them happy then more power to them. I am inclined to look beyond the smoke and mirror show and look to compare apples to pears. Not red apples to green apples.

I think you missed the whole point of my post. You made a decision based on what you interpret to be the best value and you make good points and per your reasoning they are right for you. You could have been a REV rider as form follows function so who cares what it looks like. The point though is everyone decisions are different. The T-Cat has everything I would want for my type of riding, your choice the LE does not.

I don't like the LE SW but do like the XTX LE SW, I like the T-Cat and the LTX from that point on I make a decision based on my preference and wallet and just how much I like the sled. The T-Cat at this point in time is my number one choice 137 track good shocks and the color is just right. Second would be a XTX LE SW followed by the LXR. Now if I chose to buy a T-Cat I would look at all the facts and decide, but it would be between the T-Cat and the XTX! I thank you for your analysis its well thought out but your choice is not mine. Maybe Yamaha needs to do the same and build a SRX model with less and charge more, Yamaha riders will jump at it!

If we want to make it all about money then nothing being sold today is worth 20,000 dollars and that covers all the SW 9,000 sleds! That is one of many reasons I will still ride my Apex. 2018 brings a new sled I'm waiting to see if that is the one to change my mind. Cat chassis is old now wonder what the next gen will be!