Oil & Oil Filters, there IS a difference!

[Rockmeister]

The following is a link to a study of Synthetic oil life, the oil managed to last well over 10,000 miles!

After reading this, I revised the oil change interval on my car to 6,000 miles and don't fret if it goes over a bit.
I also just change my sled oil&filter in the spring. Once a year, that's it.
I already use Mobile1 in my car and sled.

Would love to see a test of Schaeffer oils, has anyone seen one?

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stor ... -life.html


Oil Filters:

There is a BIG difference in quality of oil filters.

I found the following study after researching why a new engine I had, failed after 10,000 miles. Yes! 10,000 miles on a chevy small block and it was worn out!

Turned out to be the oil filter that failed and destroyed my engine.
Took a while to find, but turns out the filter is made of cardboard!
Well... Oil soaked cardboard isnt very tough unfortunately...

They just plan that you will never open up the bright orange can on that filter of yours to see what is REALLY in it!

So, if you use the most popular brand of oil filter in the US, think again...
If you don't believe it, buy another one, cut it open, and see for yourself, I do it for people all the time, but I usually bet them $20 first, they will almost always take the bet, noone would use cardboard to make an oil filter! Would they?!?

Oil filter study: http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilte ... study.html

After reading this I only use NAPA Gold filters, including on my sled.
Not because they are THE best, but I know they are good, easy to get, and I can remember that they ARE one of the good ones! lol

There is alot of great info on both sites, and both are fun easy reads!

 

[Rockmeister]

Something to think about...

Our engines are based on the R1 street bike.
How many R1 engines run at 10,000 or so RPMs for half their life? (Or most of their life!?)
I'd bet not many.

Snowmobiles use the high RPMs ALOT!
So extreme oils etc can make a big difference in engine life.

Not to mention the extreme temps we tend to ride in.

 

[Metallicat]

I think the Yammi filter is made by Vesrah.

Instead of the 12,000 filter change interval recommended in my manual, I'll probably change it every other oil change (about 5000 miles or so). It is only another $8 for a filter anyway.

It looks like the problems with the FRAM filters aren't due so much to the fact that they are using a paper element, but rather the construction of the filter assembly itself is poor if I am reading the above link correctly.

 

[Tork]

Yeah, Fram takes a big hit quality wise. Hot topic on the Honda car forums because many of the domestic OEM Honda filters are make by fram.

Besides the Napa, the Bosch and the Mobile 1 also are rated very highly

 

[KnappAttack]

6000 mile oil change on your car? I've been running 10,000 mile changes on my Audis using Mobil-One forever. 5000 miles on my daughters turbo VW Passat and 10,000 mile changes on my wife's Accord. On the sled's, its one a year or every 2000 miles anyway, as stated above and the RPM's being turned all the time.

 

[Metallicat]

I also go 10,000 miles on my vehicles between oil changes. 220k on my F150 using Mobil One oil and filters. 5.4L engine and it only burns less than a 1/2 quart every 5000 miles or so. Not too bad for an 11 year old Ford!

6000 mile oil change on your car? I've been running 10,000 mile changes on my Audis using Mobil-One forever. 5000 miles on my daughters turbo VW Passat and 10,000 mile changes on my wife's Accord. On the sled's, its one a year or every 2000 miles anyway, as stated above and the RPM's being turned all the time.

 

[ApexerER]

I over maintain I think. I still change the Oil in my car every 3000 miles and get mad if I go over. I changed it in the fall on my sled, and at 1000 miles this winter. I will always change the filter when I change the oil. I am the only person I know of that changes the oil on their boat and motorcycle twice a year too. I don't think there is anything better you can do for your vehical. Especially one that is turning high rpms most of its life like the Sled, boat and bike.

 

[maxdlx]

Here is just something to make you go wow. The walmart brand synthetic oil is pakaged by the same Co as Valvoline syn. You can buy a quart of 100 % wal mart syn for 3.22. There was no name brand non syn oils on the shelf that where cheaper than that. So it doesn't make sense to not run 100% syn, even if you chage it every 3000 it is cheaper. maxdlx

 

[Rockmeister]

I over maintain I think. I still change the Oil in my car every 3000 miles and get mad if I go over. I changed it in the fall on my sled, and at 1000 miles this winter. I will always change the filter when I change the oil. I am the only person I know of that changes the oil on their boat and motorcycle twice a year too. I don't think there is anything better you can do for your vehical. Especially one that is turning high rpms most of its life like the Sled, boat and bike.

I used to change mine whenever it was darker than carmel, or 3000 miles.
Whichever came first. (I never let it get dark! lol)
The ironic thing is, if you read the preliminary data, everytime they changed the oil, the wear went up again for a while.

Basically they got a spike of engine wear by changing the oil.

I never imagined that, would have thought the opposite!

 

[ApexerER]

I over maintain I think. I still change the Oil in my car every 3000 miles and get mad if I go over. I changed it in the fall on my sled, and at 1000 miles this winter. I will always change the filter when I change the oil. I am the only person I know of that changes the oil on their boat and motorcycle twice a year too. I don't think there is anything better you can do for your vehical. Especially one that is turning high rpms most of its life like the Sled, boat and bike.

I used to change mine whenever it was darker than carmel, or 3000 miles.
Whichever came first. (I never let it get dark! lol)
The ironic thing is, if you read the preliminary data, everytime they changed the oil, the wear went up again for a while.

Basically they got a spike of engine wear by changing the oil.

I never imagined that, would have thought the opposite!

Wow, I have never heard of nor would I have believed that. Where did you read that? Is is just the couple of seconds before it builds oil pressure or does brand new oil not lube as well as slightly used oil. That doesn't make sense to me....

 

[Rockmeister]

I over maintain I think. I still change the Oil in my car every 3000 miles and get mad if I go over. I changed it in the fall on my sled, and at 1000 miles this winter. I will always change the filter when I change the oil. I am the only person I know of that changes the oil on their boat and motorcycle twice a year too. I don't think there is anything better you can do for your vehical. Especially one that is turning high rpms most of its life like the Sled, boat and bike.

I used to change mine whenever it was darker than carmel, or 3000 miles.
Whichever came first. (I never let it get dark! lol)
The ironic thing is, if you read the preliminary data, everytime they changed the oil, the wear went up again for a while.

Basically they got a spike of engine wear by changing the oil.

I never imagined that, would have thought the opposite!

Wow, I have never heard of nor would I have believed that. Where did you read that? Is is just the couple of seconds before it builds oil pressure or does brand new oil not lube as well as slightly used oil. That doesn't make sense to me....

Read the data and observations at each oil sample, especially when they "topped" off the oil.
I would have NEVER believed it either! Surprised the heck out of me!
It was as if the new oil didnt lubricate as well overall, not just at start-up..
It was almost as if the oil "needed" some metals in it, and would "take" them out of the engine if the oil didnt have any in it to start with.

 

[Rockmeister]

I over maintain I think. I still change the Oil in my car every 3000 miles and get mad if I go over. I changed it in the fall on my sled, and at 1000 miles this winter. I will always change the filter when I change the oil. I am the only person I know of that changes the oil on their boat and motorcycle twice a year too. I don't think there is anything better you can do for your vehical. Especially one that is turning high rpms most of its life like the Sled, boat and bike.

I used to change mine whenever it was darker than carmel, or 3000 miles.
Whichever came first. (I never let it get dark! lol)
The ironic thing is, if you read the preliminary data, everytime they changed the oil, the wear went up again for a while.

Basically they got a spike of engine wear by changing the oil.

I never imagined that, would have thought the opposite!

Wow, I have never heard of nor would I have believed that. Where did you read that? Is is just the couple of seconds before it builds oil pressure or does brand new oil not lube as well as slightly used oil. That doesn't make sense to me....

Read the data and observations at each oil sample, especially when they "topped" off the oil.
I would have NEVER believed it either! Surprised the heck out of me!
It was as if the new oil didnt lubricate as well overall, not just at start-up..
It was almost as if the oil "needed" some metals in it, and would "take" them out of the engine if the oil didnt have any in it to start with.

I quoted this from the summary of the Mobile1 test. Pretty interesting reading!

"While the wear metals all accumulated steadily over the course of the test, the highest concentrations of accumulation per mile occurred in the first 3,000 miles of the test! From the 3,000-mile mark all the way to 18,000 miles, only lead showed an increase in per-mile wear beyond 3,000 miles. Yet even with an increased wear rate, lead wore the least in terms of absolute wear. For iron and copper, the longer the oil remained in service, the lower the wear rate got.

In case it isn't obvious yet, this means that the most wear occurs in the first 3,000 miles."

That is located at the bottom of this page:
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

I SOOOOOOO love the internet, with a good common sense filter, we have access to some really great info that we could never have had access to just 20 years ago.
Data like this was owned by big companies, and our only choice was to believe advertisements...

 

[Rockmeister]

It looks like the problems with the FRAM filters aren't due so much to the fact that they are using a paper element, but rather the construction of the filter assembly itself is poor if I am reading the above link correctly.

They actually make the end supports out of CARDBOARD!
Soak that cardboard in oil and see what happens to it.

It took me days to think of cutting the oil filter open to find out where all the abrasive debris came from in my new (about 10,000 mile) now worn out 350.

It disintegrated as you would expect ANY cardboard soaked in oil to do.
When it did, it dumped everything into my nice new, and soon to die, engine.
EVERYTHING was worn down, cam, lifters, rings, bearings, everything!
Looked like it had 300,000 miles on it.

Very costly mistake using that popular well advertised bright orange oil filter.
That's how I found the oil filter study, researched into the filter construction, figured I couldn't be the only one this has happened to.
Im sure there are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people out there that have had the same type of engine failures due to this filters failures.

Unfortunately, most will never cut the oil filter open to find out.

 

[Canuck Sledhead]

Re: Cars

In Canada, they have brainwashed us into 5,000 km oild changes (4,ooo miles).


Re: Sled

I will change filter every time I change the oil. $10 extra, but worried about high Revs and Temp.

 

[bashley]

Rockmeister, I just wanted to say thank you for sharing that web link.
As soon as I got done reading the filter study I called my brother, (in KY), and guess where he was? In line at Auto Zone. I asked him if he was buying an oil filter, he was, I asked him which kind, he said "A Fram". Well, I gave him a quick explanation why and he ended up buying a Mobil 1.
We both have been using Fram for years, thank goodness we use the Tough Guard, and luckily so far so good, but we are switching for good now. Thanks again.