How many Apex owners think they want upgrade to Sidewinder?

[Sasquatch]

As a rider of the Yamacat or Catmaha 2015 viper for 2 years and prior to that nearly 20 years on Yamaha and over 40 thousand miles- I hope the relationship DOES continue.

I think we forget the first years or early experience with our beloved APEX - had an 06 GT for 6+ years and 12+K miles and lived it and loved the sled but no less issues than the early VIPER, the Nytro guys and posts will tell you the same, similar to the modern early Phazer.

Yamaha engines /drive train on a great Chassis as well as influence on build process is an advantage in my book. Would not trade my VIPER for a same age / mileage APEX. May buy another APEX someday but I would not give up the VIPER. my 2 cents

Agree with you on the early Apex having issues in fact some like on the Viper where just silly issues. I have to add though that the Viper has had one issue that unlike the Apex stands out above the rest and that is broken gears dropping into the engine and the following damage. Can that be compared to the few broken rod bolts on the Apex/RX? It can and should be to be fair. Maybe the Cat ECU compounded the broken gear issue but the downed Apex engines compared to the Viper engines does not even compare. Apex engine failure is almost non existent. Some donuts, bushings, bad bearings, handwarmers etc don't ruin reliability perception like engine failures. Engine failures is supposed to be a two stroke issue, its something that can not be overlooked as the price to ride and the main reason most went to Yamaha and four stokes. My 05 RX had donut failure, titanium pipe failure, loose bushings in front end and one broken driveshaft at 9,000 miles. Other then the driveshaft everything else was maintenance items done on my time more or less, ie not trip breakers. At 18,000 miles on the RX the motor runs strong and all the other stuff are now non issues as repaired and or upgraded but I do worry a bit about the driveshaft.

I would not trade my Apex for a Viper either Mark! So I hear ya! Ya gotta ride what ya like! I think though you would trade your Viper for one Apex powered. Reason is you like the Viper and I know you like the Apex motor.

 

[Snowaddict]

Agree with you on the early Apex having issues in fact some like on the Viper where just silly issues. I have to add though that the Viper has had one issue that unlike the Apex stands out above the rest and that is broken gears dropping into the engine and the following damage. Can that be compared to the few broken rod bolts on the Apex/RX? It can and should be to be fair. Maybe the Cat ECU compounded the broken gear issue but the downed Apex engines compared to the Viper engines does not even compare. Apex engine failure is almost non existent. Some donuts, bushings, bad bearings, handwarmers etc don't ruin reliability perception like engine failures. Engine failures is supposed to be a two stroke issue, its something that can not be overlooked as the price to ride and the main reason most went to Yamaha and four stokes. My 05 RX had donut failure, titanium pipe failure, loose bushings in front end and one broken driveshaft at 9,000 miles. Other then the driveshaft everything else was maintenance items done on my time more or less, ie not trip breakers. At 18,000 miles on the RX the motor runs strong and all the other stuff are now non issues as repaired and or upgraded but I do worry a bit about the driveshaft.

I would not trade my Apex for a Viper either Mark! So I hear ya! Ya gotta ride what ya like! I think though you would trade your Viper for one Apex powered. Reason is you like the Viper and I know you like the Apex motor.

I got an '06 Apex RTX and have to say it has treated me well. Can't say it's had any "major" issues.
I was waiting for an Apex replacement. Would've easily gone for Apex motor in procross chassis. Along came the sidewinder. Took my curiosity and ran with it!

 

[yamadoo]

Charley / Sasquatch knows me to well.
The Apex engine is the best for me hands down, miss it, will not argue. But I cant have it all so for a while will have the Viper 3 banger Great Chassis ride and handling and family Vectors. Remember 90% of us have no starter issues, small consolation for those who do or did. UNACCEPTABLE.

Agree with you on the early Apex having issues in fact some like on the Viper where just silly issues. I have to add though that the Viper has had one issue that unlike the Apex stands out above the rest and that is broken gears dropping into the engine and the following damage. Can that be compared to the few broken rod bolts on the Apex/RX? It can and should be to be fair. Maybe the Cat ECU compounded the broken gear issue but the downed Apex engines compared to the Viper engines does not even compare. Apex engine failure is almost non existent. Some donuts, bushings, bad bearings, handwarmers etc don't ruin reliability perception like engine failures. Engine failures is supposed to be a two stroke issue, its something that can not be overlooked as the price to ride and the main reason most went to Yamaha and four stokes. My 05 RX had donut failure, titanium pipe failure, loose bushings in front end and one broken driveshaft at 9,000 miles. Other then the driveshaft everything else was maintenance items done on my time more or less, ie not trip breakers. At 18,000 miles on the RX the motor runs strong and all the other stuff are now non issues as repaired and or upgraded but I do worry a bit about the driveshaft.

I would not trade my Apex for a Viper either Mark! So I hear ya! Ya gotta ride what ya like! I think though you would trade your Viper for one Apex powered. Reason is you like the Viper and I know you like the Apex motor.

 

[Agman 57]

Well I bit, I have a SW BTX coming, but I'm keeping my Apex's, I think each sled has it's on purpose or place. They are just to perfect of a long range trail sled. We will see how the SW compares and then make a decision in a year or so if the Apex stays or goes. My gut feeling is I will keep it till there is a NEW Apex?? (2018 we hope)

 

[Sasquatch]

Well I bit, I have a SW BTX coming, but I'm keeping my Apex's, I think each sled has it's on purpose or place. They are just to perfect of a long range trail sled. We will see how the SW compares and then make a decision in a year or so if the Apex stays or goes. My gut feeling is I will keep it till there is a NEW Apex?? (2018 we hope)

Guaranty it will be fast and a huge step up from the Viper. I love the Apex engine too much after a I guess it will be a 12 year love affair. Many have said turbo Apex more power but I have held to my thought that you know what the 150 160 hp range is more then fast enough for me. I'd love more hp but after all these years I know that there is a wall and past that wall hp climbs exponentially while speed does not. You will love the extra hp but I never sold my Warrior and will not sell my Apex no matter what comes along.

 

[Sasquatch]

Charley / Sasquatch knows me to well.
The Apex engine is the best for me hands down, miss it, will not argue. But I cant have it all so for a while will have the Viper 3 banger Great Chassis ride and handling and family Vectors. Remember 90% of us have no starter issues, small consolation for those who do or did. UNACCEPTABLE.

I hope its not that bad Doo and Polaris where real proud of their 4 to 6 % failure rates on their two strokes and thought them to be acceptable! Its the reason I stopped riding two strokes and went to four strokes. Failure on a four stroke should be only after 50,000 plus miles IMHO!

 

[yamadoo]

The idiot who thought it was OK to have AC do the ECU and ignore the Vector/ Nytro knowledge from experience looks to blame. I am sure someone at Yamaha knows exactly the negotiated value per sled of the ECU decision and hopefully the cost to the customer, dealer and brand reputation are causing some consternation and closer looks at other decisions.

 

[Sasquatch]

The idiot who thought it was OK to have AC do the ECU and ignore the Vector/ Nytro knowledge from experience looks to blame. I am sure someone at Yamaha knows exactly the negotiated value per sled of the ECU decision and hopefully the cost to the customer, dealer and brand reputation are causing some consternation and closer looks at other decisions.

Ya the Vector Nytro did not seem to have the problem and all I ever heard start never backfired. Id pick up a Vector or Venture but the Viper scares me!

Nice thing is Yamaha is looking after the ECU on the sidewinder so maybe with some new gears this will be a thing of the past. The weaker rod problem on the 16's should not be a problem for NA Vipers so hopefully Yamaha can live down the bad rep. 2011 up pistons on the Apex are now weaker as well and cracking under boost. NA no worries or even small boost say Yamacharger or up to 4pds but past that cracks in the wrist pin webbing. I do remember however the bad pistons on the 600 cats in 96 97. Skirts where breaking off. Took forever for that to go away. Still popping up in 2002 when I bought a leftover 600 ZL that no one wanted. Kids love it!

So what is up with Yamaha and crappy weaker parts I don't know, they used to over build everything and I learned to like that but lately its like they are copying the rest and building on the edge. I'm not OK with that!

 

[yamadoo]

Yea I think us little guys like, "over built and a little heavy but to LAST" LOL

 

[Sasquatch]

Yea I think us little guys like, "over built and a little heavy but to LAST" LOL

Ain't that the truth!

 

[Sledroll]

Ain't that the truth!

Sas Are you now counting yourself , as one of the little guys ? LOL

 

[Sasquatch]

Sas Are you now counting yourself , as one of the little guys ? LOL

As little as Yamadoo was inferring too, I am indeed!

 

[yamadoo]

When I used the phrase, "us little guys" he knew I was joking.

I think someone joked when Charley and I were in the hallway in Pinawa, MB that there was a solar eclipse. I didn't get it -neither of us would fit in a Mitsubishi little car. LOL

 

[Sasquatch]

When I used the phrase, "us little guys" he knew I was joking.

I think someone joked when Charley and I were in the hallway in Pinawa, MB that there was a solar eclipse. I didn't get it -neither of us would fit in a Mitsubishi little car. LOL

Now that's funny right there, I don't care who you are!