Market share

[benjamingvsu]

Who picks up the little market share Yamaha had? Do the faithful jump ship to the Doo Turbo's? Does Cat rush a 4 stroke for the Catalyst chassis; maybe with a yamaha motor? Does Polaris turbo or otherwise improve their latest 4 stroke?

Or does the 4 stroke market remain small and the buyers pick up their choices of Doo. Poo or Cat's 2 strokes?

 

[74Nitro]

I heard that Cat will quit using the Yamaha engine after 2025 and switch to Weber. Don't know if I like that.
I wonder if Yamaha would entertain selling the Winder engine package to Polaris? Polaris badly needs a good Turbo four stroke package, and that would be sweet.

 

[earthling]

Who picks up the little market share Yamaha had? Do the faithful jump ship to the Doo Turbo's? Does Cat rush a 4 stroke for the Catalyst chassis; maybe with a yamaha motor? Does Polaris turbo or otherwise improve their latest 4 stroke?

Or does the 4 stroke market remain small and the buyers pick up their choices of Doo. Poo or Cat's 2 strokes?

Two-strokes are doomed to eventually fall to regulatory compliance issues. The far larger motorcycle market has already proven this out. The future will be 4 stroke and electric/other.

 

[STAIN]

Or does the 4 stroke market remain small

I dont think that market is small.....

 

[Srxspec]

I dont think that market is small.....

Actually the 4-stroke market is only about 7 or 8% of total snowmobile sales.... The 4-stroke market is extremely small, this is why Yamaha is exiting. They went all in on the 4-stroke market in 2003 and they failed to realize that they needed to stay universal and offer both 4-strokes & 2-strokes.

 

[earthling]

Actually the 4-stroke market is only about 7 or 8% of total snowmobile sales.... The 4-stroke market is extremely small, this is why Yamaha is exiting. They went all in on the 4-stroke market in 2003 and they failed to realize that they needed to stay universal and offer both 4-strokes & 2-strokes.

Yamaha is likely not exiting due to the 4 stroke, its more likely the shrinking size of the snowmobile market coupled to climate change. Yamaha always has been cutting edge and a risk taker (for a Japanese company). Their current focus is on the future markets (robotics, unmanned aerial, electric motors, etc).

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[benjamingvsu]

Two-strokes are doomed to eventually fall to regulatory compliance issues. The far larger motorcycle market has already proven this out. The future will be 4 stroke and electric/other.

That's what Yamaha told us 20 years ago. since then the two strokes have gotten cleaner; regulatory issues have relaxed. I still wouldn't write off the 2 stroke sled market.

 

[benjamingvsu]

I don't think that makes sense; global sales are pretty consistent since 2010. Sure, not like the 90s but if they were leaving because the market is smaller the are making that decision 14 years too late.

Yamaha is likely not exiting due to the 4 stroke, its more likely the shrinking size of the snowmobile market coupled to climate change. Yamaha always has been cutting edge and a risk taker (for a Japanese company). Their current focus is on the future markets (robotics, unmanned aerial, electric motors, etc).

Products - Yamaha, product, business | YAMAHA MOTOR CO., LTD.

Explore our diverse product lines

global.yamaha-motor.com

 

[STAIN]

Or does the 4 stroke market remain small

I dont think that market is small.....

Actually the 4-stroke market is only about 7 or 8% of total snowmobile sales.... The 4-stroke market is extremely small, this is why Yamaha is exiting. They went all in on the 4-stroke market in 2003 and they failed to realize that they needed to stay universal and offer both 4-strokes & 2-strokes.

Really? I see a FAR bigger percentage of 4 strokes around here and in Quebec than 7-8%
I would say around here it may be as high as 20 % and in Quebec even higher.
Maybe the Northeast is where all the sales are?

 

[rbig18]

I thought I read Ski doo now sells more 4 stroke than 2 stroke sleds.

 

[earthling]

I don't think that makes sense; global sales are pretty consistent since 2010. Sure, not like the 90s but if they were leaving because the market is smaller the are making that decision 14 years too late.

Global sales have been flat since 2012 but that is not looking at individual company performance. In general, global snowmobile sales have been in decline since the 90s. (96/97). Companies like Yamaha only think in terms of year over year when it comes to in-year performance evaluation. The bigger investments they make into product lines and investors tend to follow trends and the trend slope is generally down, and for yamaha alone it is even steeper. Snowmobile sales were down 9% last year alone and this is with both BRP reporting sales growth so that leaves Yamaha picking up a proportionally larger chunk of the losses.

Investors (and companies) tend to care about overall trends when it comes to whether or not to re-invest. Keep in mind that for a company there is no such thing as a 1 year investment, its always 3-5 years minimum and some companies are looking at 10 year ROI windows.

 

[earthling]

I thought I read Ski doo now sells more 4 stroke than 2 stroke sleds.

Maybe more sales growth in 4-strokes but that would not be hard to do. There is no way that they are selling more 4-strokes in general than 2-strokes.

 

[STAIN]

Maybe more sales growth in 4-strokes but that would not be hard to do. There is no way that they are selling more 4-strokes in general than 2-strokes.

The only way it may be possible is with the fleet sales. Rental companies and ski areas.

 

[sxr70001]

If you read the whole article in snow goer they are blaming it partly on the loss of the Russian market due to sanctions. I guess they bought a lot of sleds.

 

[Dynomax666]

Yamaha is likely not exiting due to the 4 stroke, its more likely the shrinking size of the snowmobile market coupled to climate change. Yamaha always has been cutting edge and a risk taker (for a Japanese company). Their current focus is on the future markets (robotics, unmanned aerial, electric motors, etc).

Products - Yamaha, product, business | YAMAHA MOTOR CO., LTD.

Explore our diverse product lines

global.yamaha-motor.com

climate change is shrinking an already small market... snowmobiles are 1.6billion, sportbikes are 130billion... think about that for a minute... which market would you really want to be in? they're already getting crushed, backed out to basically being an engine supplier, not really going to lose much if they just pull the pin entirely... BRP and Skidoo will scoop up the leftovers... likely most yammy people will go to Skidoo i'd guess.