**Official Clutch Rattle Removal Thread w/ Pics**

[Beenba]

OTM you are right. I bet some clutch kits will quiet it up a bit since they are better balanced or for whatever reason. From the testings I have done, the clutch is acts like a impact gun causing the splines to slap forward/back and in/out a little bit. When you remove just the clutch and start it up, there is absolutely no rattle...which makes sense since there is no weight to cause the impacting (rattle) on the splines. Clearly the harmonics amplify it much more on the nytro, but even my buddies apex has a nasty rattle.

And yes, once it fails (I've had it fail 3 times now) the adhesive is well contained in the PTO shaft. It wouldn't be a bad idea to clean it out though just to be safe.

Seeing as fxnytroxtx tried the wurth and it failed also, I might be the test pilot again and use a two part epoxy before my sled trip. It would be a good test. I have also been thinking about using some kind of silicone rather than a hard epoxy to quiet things up..probably wont last though.

 

[rough rider]

Has anyone tryed Loctites Fixmaster superior metal putty?? part # 97473, it costs 68-90$ for a pound, says its for spline and key way repair max temp 250 degrees, 5500 psi tensile strenth cures in 6 hours at 77 degrees. Alittle to spendy for me to try, but could this stuff be the answer????

 

[towerrigger]

Super goop has come to mind for me with this. When it is setup it is harder than silicone and does not flake off. I might try some of this the next go around. I am also going to call loctite directly and see if the 660 will work. Here is the description for the website:

Loctite 660 Quick Metal is a creamy, non-running gel that is applied onto cylindrical parts to fill surface imperfections and repair worn areas. It does not contain metal, but once assembled hardens to a strength that often doubles that of a press fit.

 

[Beenba]

Let us know what they say, I'm curious. However I doubt it will work . The spec sheet states it only has a max shear strength of 2500psi and that is assuming a proper tight fit (ie 0.001 to 0.002"). It is at 75% strength with a gap greater than 0.006" and down to ~60% with a 0.012" gap. Any temps greater than 50deg C will also decrease its strength. It would also take longer to cure with those larger gaps.

From what I said above, that is how I determined 648 to be the best candidate (strongest), and even that didn't work. I bet I have ~0.020" play in my splines so it is just too much. Using a 2 part epoxy I think will be the ticket in my opinion.

If you dont mind, explain the situation to loctite, about the rattling and constant pounding, and see if they can recommend something? Let them know we have tried 640, 680, 648 with no luck. Im not sure when our rep is in next at my work, I could try and ask him...however I don't think he has any idea other than how to sell it LOL

 

[rough rider]

Im checking into 2 more metal epoxies one is from Devcon and other is made in europe called belzona 1111 sounds like some powerful stuff for rebuilding splines etc, guys said they used it on bulldozers and has held up for years, the belzona is about 90 bucks for a 1 pound can, but sounds like it is quite strong, im checking to see if there is any usa dist in area, The devcon product sounds good also about 35-40 for a container, ridable snow is still around so not going to pull my sled apart till snow is gone, but for sure going to look into this Unless a 2014 ends up in my garage

 

[1975FA]

Im checking into 2 more metal epoxies one is from Devcon and other is made in europe called belzona 1111 sounds like some powerful stuff for rebuilding splines etc, guys said they used it on bulldozers and has held up for years, the belzona is about 90 bucks for a 1 pound can, but sounds like it is quite strong, im checking to see if there is any usa dist in area, The devcon product sounds good also about 35-40 for a container, ridable snow is still around so not going to pull my sled apart till snow is gone, but for sure going to look into this Unless a 2014 ends up in my garage

Devcon titanim epoxy is supper good stuff. I am curious to know what a high tempature silicon would do. I have seen this used from the factory on splined brake discs on atv's. It held up well, no disk rattle, but it was a new tight part(no jingle) when assembled.

 

[apracing]

thats a great fix...did it ,sounds great !!!

 

[Mills]

Guys, instead of trying to use a liquid material that has to cure over time and must be able to handle a high load without adhesively failing, why not put a material on the stub shaft splines that is permanent?! You can do this by removing the stub shaft and measuring the splines in it as compared to those on the end of the crannk. If the female portion of the stub splines are wider than the male splines on the cranck shaft then have your stub shaft spline electroless nickle plated to bring them to a size that won't cause the rattling. The plating material will be a permanent fix without the fear of it adhesively failing like Locktite or the other materials that have been tried. This is what I am going to do with my '08 once the snow melts here in west central WI which shouldn't be for several weeks yet. We still have 18" - 20" on the ground with no warm weather in the foreseeable forecast.

 

[yox185]

Guys, instead of trying to use a liquid material that has to cure over time and must be able to handle a high load without adhesively failing, why not put a material on the stub shaft splines that is permanent?! You can do this by removing the stub shaft and measuring the splines in it as compared to those on the end of the crannk. If the female portion of the stub splines are wider than the male splines on the cranck shaft then have your stub shaft spline electroless nickle plated to bring them to a size that won't cause the rattling. The plating material will be a permanent fix without the fear of it adhesively failing like Locktite or the other materials that have been tried. This is what I am going to do with my '08 once the snow melts here in west central WI which shouldn't be for several weeks yet. We still have 18" - 20" on the ground with no warm weather in the foreseeable forecast.

Interesting idea, please report back here with the result. The fate of hundreds of Yamaha owners ears are depending on you. Not to mention the non Yamaha owners ears.....but I don't care about them.

 

[Beenba]

Guys, instead of trying to use a liquid material that has to cure over time and must be able to handle a high load without adhesively failing, why not put a material on the stub shaft splines that is permanent?! You can do this by removing the stub shaft and measuring the splines in it as compared to those on the end of the crannk. If the female portion of the stub splines are wider than the male splines on the cranck shaft then have your stub shaft spline electroless nickle plated to bring them to a size that won't cause the rattling. The plating material will be a permanent fix without the fear of it adhesively failing like Locktite or the other materials that have been tried. This is what I am going to do with my '08 once the snow melts here in west central WI which shouldn't be for several weeks yet. We still have 18" - 20" on the ground with no warm weather in the foreseeable forecast.

I'm afraid the plating just wont be thick enough. From my experiences the zinc/nickel plating is usually around 0.001" at the very very max. When taking my stub shaft out after the loctite has cured, I have seen pieces of loctite averaging 0.008". Now before you rule it out, these pieces I see may be from the "tops" of the spline, where it really doesn't matter. Maybe the play between the splines isn't that much, but from the sound of the rattling 0.008" between the actual spline surfaces is believable. I have had no actual way of measureing the play, other than removing the crank and the stub shaft and sending them out for some kind of scan.

I am curious to see your findings though, maybe there are plating processes I am unfamiliar with that can get to specific thicknesses...But you also have to be careful because you don't want the plating on the two bearing surfaces.

 

[redrider18]

Just spit-balling here, could they be milled out for a square key to be added to take up the space?

 

[Mills]

After consulting with a plating company in Minneapolis, the electroless nickle plating may not be the way to go beccause you are limited to only 0.002" plating thickness althoguht it is the most controllable plating method when it comes to plating thickness. It is also very corrosion resistent as any plating put on the stub shaft splines would live inside the engine case and be subject to engine oil and all the combustion contaminants that get in the oil.

Their suggestion was to go with plane old hard industrial nickle/chrome plating (decorative nickle/chrome plating is different). They could build it up to 0.020"+ if needed but, the thickness control on this plating process is not as good as the electroless nickle control.

They did caution me to say that when you plate splines you build up in a factor of 4x because you plate the sides of each tooth along with the top of each tooth and the valley between the teeth. So if you wanted to take up 0.020" slop you would only put on 0.005" of plating. You also have to watch the I.D. to make sure it does not close up too much such that you cant get the female stub shaft on the crank. Since nickle/chrome plating is so hard you would have to have the I.D. jig-ground if the I.D. ends up too small. Jig-grinding is big $$$$$ so masking the tops of the spline teeth and/or the valley between them would be worth the added setup time and money.

To have one stub shaft plated he would charge $150 minimum plus additional masking and quality measurment time and possibly some added plating time.
If they were to get business as a result of me trying this out and being successful he may be willing to plate mine for a greatly reduced price if others here were to do the same thing if it works. How many people do you think would do this if it is successful? 100's, 1000, ????

What are your guy's thoughts on this?????

 

[Supa Dexta]

You would get a handful tops. Not worth your time or trouble.

 

[Beenba]

^I agree. Only the handful of us crazy enough to do this would do it.

Square key "could" work, but you would be talking about milling your crank...and I'm not tearing my motor down anytime soon. I positive a 2-part epoxy would work, since it will cure in the presence of air. Thats why I figure the loctite didn't last, it just couldn't get the full cure due to the amount of gap. I' probably going to try a two part epoxy this fall. (I work on my car in the summer and forget about my sled until October/November)

 

[Supa Dexta]

I still say go back to square one.. It was stated originally that some guys in norway had this done on turbo sleds, and were a couple of years into it.