morrisond
Expert
There have been various threads on speculation of what the '09 Apex is.
To summarize the most Popolar belief is that it is based on the Nytro Chasis is 30-40 lbs lighter than an Apex and about 165-170hp.
If you were Yamaha and this was the design goal what would make the most sense for the engine?
Although it has been reported that the Vector/Nytro motors are similar in weight to the Apex motor, according to Yamaha this isn't so and you save 20lbs going to the three holer, which stands up when we look at the actual measured weights of production sleds.
A lot of knowledgeable people believe it's an 3 Holer for the lighter weight.
If you were Yamaha do you try and get 165-170hp out of the Nytro engine or do you drop an bigger three holer in, say the 1350?
The advantages of upping the power on the Nytro engine is you don't have to modify engine mounts or systems at all. The question becomes how do get 165 or 170 out of the Nytro?
You could put radical cams in to get it, but then you would give up driveability, low end torque, hard starting etc.
It seems to me the only way to meet your goals would be an system to vary the timing on your valves, just like what has been done in cars for some time.
Would this allow you to run Higher compression as well?
Assuming the Nytro is 138 HP and 94 lbs of torque, and an VVT engine was 165 HP, what would happen to the torque?
The other advantages is that your economy could be fantastic and emissions could be very clean as well.
Is this the future?
To summarize the most Popolar belief is that it is based on the Nytro Chasis is 30-40 lbs lighter than an Apex and about 165-170hp.
If you were Yamaha and this was the design goal what would make the most sense for the engine?
Although it has been reported that the Vector/Nytro motors are similar in weight to the Apex motor, according to Yamaha this isn't so and you save 20lbs going to the three holer, which stands up when we look at the actual measured weights of production sleds.
A lot of knowledgeable people believe it's an 3 Holer for the lighter weight.
If you were Yamaha do you try and get 165-170hp out of the Nytro engine or do you drop an bigger three holer in, say the 1350?
The advantages of upping the power on the Nytro engine is you don't have to modify engine mounts or systems at all. The question becomes how do get 165 or 170 out of the Nytro?
You could put radical cams in to get it, but then you would give up driveability, low end torque, hard starting etc.
It seems to me the only way to meet your goals would be an system to vary the timing on your valves, just like what has been done in cars for some time.
Would this allow you to run Higher compression as well?
Assuming the Nytro is 138 HP and 94 lbs of torque, and an VVT engine was 165 HP, what would happen to the torque?
The other advantages is that your economy could be fantastic and emissions could be very clean as well.
Is this the future?
MR.HAPPY
TY 4 Stroke Master
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My guess would be a brand new motor with larger cc's! They don't have to care about racing, they have the Nytro for that!
Will it be available in both the Nytro & the Apex chassis, is the question to me!
BR
Will it be available in both the Nytro & the Apex chassis, is the question to me!
BR
QCRider
TY 4 Stroke Master
I agree with coldone. At this point the Chassis is as important to me than the engine. I don't want something in the FX chassis personally. I can see why many do, but I don't.
rapeape
Expert
I'd love to see a closed loop type of FI, the current system we have is pretty weak. An O2 sensor and a ? sensor up front with an upgraded ECU would be the ticket.
There is no reason other than minor cost to have the same FI system as modern hot-rod cars.
As far as a 3-cyl., yuck!
There is no reason other than minor cost to have the same FI system as modern hot-rod cars.
As far as a 3-cyl., yuck!
morrisond
Expert
How much meat is in the Nytro Cylinders? Can it be made bigger?
RSVECTORFREAK
Lifetime Member
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I thought the 120 motor with porting and different carbs were in the 150+ HP range so I'm sure they could squeeze some more juice out of the 130.
Mikey
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Hard enough to insure A 998 or 1050 cc sled now A 1350 would be next to impossible for most people to insure. Whats wrong with 150 hp? You want more HP put A supercharger or turbo on.
JDKRXW
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Engine:
* Compact, lightweight 1298cc, DOHC, 16-valve, liquid-cooled inline four-cylinder engine delivers power and torque for an unequaled spread of muscle over a wide rpm range.
* Engine is a fully stressed chassis member, allowing for a lightweight frame design.
* Slant-block engine design uses stacked, tri-axis gearbox shafts that help minimize powerplant size while optimizing chassis geometry for balanced weight distribution and great handling.
* Lightweight forged pistons with carburized connecting rods provide superb strength and reduced reciprocating mass for outstanding high-rpm durability.
* Advanced fuel injection system is ideal for long-distance supersport-touring, delivering crisp, seamless throttle response in a variety of altitude/weather conditions.
* Shaft final drive system is super-durable and virtually maintenance-free.
* Low-vibration crankshaft with two gear-driven secondary counterbalancers help deliver a glass-smooth ride with reduced rider/passenger fatigue.
* Four-into-one-into-two stainless-steel exhaust optimizes engine performance across the powerband.
* Wet-sump oil system uses an easy-access cartridge-type oil filter mounted on the engine’s left side.
* Compact, lightweight 1298cc, DOHC, 16-valve, liquid-cooled inline four-cylinder engine delivers power and torque for an unequaled spread of muscle over a wide rpm range.
* Engine is a fully stressed chassis member, allowing for a lightweight frame design.
* Slant-block engine design uses stacked, tri-axis gearbox shafts that help minimize powerplant size while optimizing chassis geometry for balanced weight distribution and great handling.
* Lightweight forged pistons with carburized connecting rods provide superb strength and reduced reciprocating mass for outstanding high-rpm durability.
* Advanced fuel injection system is ideal for long-distance supersport-touring, delivering crisp, seamless throttle response in a variety of altitude/weather conditions.
* Shaft final drive system is super-durable and virtually maintenance-free.
* Low-vibration crankshaft with two gear-driven secondary counterbalancers help deliver a glass-smooth ride with reduced rider/passenger fatigue.
* Four-into-one-into-two stainless-steel exhaust optimizes engine performance across the powerband.
* Wet-sump oil system uses an easy-access cartridge-type oil filter mounted on the engine’s left side.
morrisond
Expert
That's the FJR1300 engine, I think it would be too heavy
RacerDave
Expert
morrisond said:
Thats what I tought when I was reading that.
rightarm
TY 4 Stroke Master
FX H.O motor and electronic's from the 08 Yamaha Watercraft is the way to go.
The FXâ„¢ HO is powered by a high output Yamaha MR-1â„¢ engine. This 1052cc four cylinder, four-stroke Yamaha marine engine delivers more power in a lighter package than any other full-size, four-stroke normally-aspirated watercraft in the industry.
Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI): Four individually adjustable throttle bodies, throttle position sensor (TPS) and intake air pressure and air temperature sensors supply the optimum air/fuel mixture. The results are a smooth, high power output with low fuel consumption and low exhaust emissions.
Specially Designed, One-piece Cylinder and Crankcase Assembly: Provides tremendous engine rigidity that's lighter and stiffer than two-piece designs.
Slant Detection Switch: Electronic switch stops engine and oil pumps immediately if watercraft becomes overturned, protecting motor from unwanted water ingestion.
Dry Sump Lubrication: Uses two engine oil pumps to deliver lubricating oil to each moving part with water-jacketed sump and oil backflow protection.
Yamaha Engine Management System (Y.E.M.S.): An integrated, computerized management system that controls and adjusts such functions as ignition timing, fuel injection mapping, engine diagnostics.
Electronically Controlled, Variable Ignition Timing: For exact ignition advance control at all throttle positions and RPMs.
The FXâ„¢ HO is powered by a high output Yamaha MR-1â„¢ engine. This 1052cc four cylinder, four-stroke Yamaha marine engine delivers more power in a lighter package than any other full-size, four-stroke normally-aspirated watercraft in the industry.
Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI): Four individually adjustable throttle bodies, throttle position sensor (TPS) and intake air pressure and air temperature sensors supply the optimum air/fuel mixture. The results are a smooth, high power output with low fuel consumption and low exhaust emissions.
Specially Designed, One-piece Cylinder and Crankcase Assembly: Provides tremendous engine rigidity that's lighter and stiffer than two-piece designs.
Slant Detection Switch: Electronic switch stops engine and oil pumps immediately if watercraft becomes overturned, protecting motor from unwanted water ingestion.
Dry Sump Lubrication: Uses two engine oil pumps to deliver lubricating oil to each moving part with water-jacketed sump and oil backflow protection.
Yamaha Engine Management System (Y.E.M.S.): An integrated, computerized management system that controls and adjusts such functions as ignition timing, fuel injection mapping, engine diagnostics.
Electronically Controlled, Variable Ignition Timing: For exact ignition advance control at all throttle positions and RPMs.
rightarm
TY 4 Stroke Master
morrisond said:
Making it bigger only gives you minimal gains 45% of the power in the engine comes from head work and timing.
kviper
VIP Member
Nytro motor camed and setup to run 10,800 with gear reduction, 165 to 170 HP in Nytro chasis available in GT suspendtion. I placed my order last spring with the big guy's. If you guy's read this, How is my order coming? kviper
SoCoRX1
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Mikey said:
Advertising is all about HP. HP=Sales. Right now 150 isnt very much all things considered
Mikey
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Like I said supercharge it or turbo it 150 hp on A stock sled is enough. Unless you are in the mountains or racing on ice 150 hp is just fine. Refine the chassis that makes alot more sense...
