It is unfortunate that some are taking my comments as a personal attack or something. I just view this as a bit of a debate, no big deal. I do not disagree that some of the Yamaha rear skids have had problems. They are well documented on this site and I've experienced issues with the ProActive skid in my Vector.
My point is, I've seen Yamaha skids used in competition and their weaknesses have been found and the means to improve their durability have been discovered. I have yet to see a ZX2 being used in a terrane racing application. If the ZX2 was so good, than it would have quickly risen to the top as a must have rear skid for racers and aggressive riders. It has not. The open class of the USCC allows for mod sleds with non factory parts to be raced. I'm not aware of anyone using a ZX2.
Anyway, I'm not sold on the ZX2 and feel a guy would be better off just revalving or upgrading their shocks as opposed to spending big dollars on an aftermarket skid that has nothing in its resume of being definitely better than stock in the competitive, racing arena.
My point is, I've seen Yamaha skids used in competition and their weaknesses have been found and the means to improve their durability have been discovered. I have yet to see a ZX2 being used in a terrane racing application. If the ZX2 was so good, than it would have quickly risen to the top as a must have rear skid for racers and aggressive riders. It has not. The open class of the USCC allows for mod sleds with non factory parts to be raced. I'm not aware of anyone using a ZX2.
Anyway, I'm not sold on the ZX2 and feel a guy would be better off just revalving or upgrading their shocks as opposed to spending big dollars on an aftermarket skid that has nothing in its resume of being definitely better than stock in the competitive, racing arena.
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
kinger said:
Good lord. You should have seen the commotion a year or so ago when I posted the pics of some factory sleds with Poo skids under them in the Nytro section!! Pretty funny, eh? No, they don't have to be factory, but you'd think they'd have some honor there. The Nytro skid is actually kinda nice, but they have no, or I should say little, support on the racing scene.
BTW, based on the fact I could buy 3-4 alum. suspensions like mine for the price of a ZX2, I'll be staying with alum a while longer.... 5000 miles without a broken or worn out part (other than hyfax) starting with a used 6-7 year old skid. Just something to consider....
kinger
VIP Member
AKrider said:
Dude seriously you dont have a ZX2 and because you dont see them on your local race scence in AK your going to give all the members in here advice that the ZX2 is a waste of money?
I dont take this as a personal attack I take it as MISINFORMATION and you need to do your homework on things and ACTUAL information before making claims its better then something else.
Your entitled to your opinon I have a lot of them however when people ask questions I try to balance out what I say with facts and scenarios that formed my opinion and not what the local racers are doing. Then they can form a opinon if I'm a idiot or if they can relate to situations I listed and it makes sense.
I'm done with the debate but if you say the ZX2 is junk to anyone on here please put the caveat that its junk because you dont see it on the race scene. Then let mdkuni say based on his actual experince that he has 15,000 miles on his and has replaced nothing aside from maint items. Then a guy can actually make a assesment as to which is a better benefit for his dollar.
Kinger,
Take a deep breath and count to 10. It's an internet forum and people are allowed to post their points of view.
1. I don't see the skid being used in the USCC or the ISOC race circuts, nor is it being used in my neck of the woods.
2. I never said the ZX2 is junk. However, I am far more inclined to believe in the worth of a product that has been proven on a race track. That holds a lot more credibility than some guy posting on a forum.
Kinda like when I read posts where a guy jumps his RX-1 fourteen feet in the air to a tail landing. Fourteen feet is the average clearance of a highway overpass. The ditch on the other side of the road must have been really fricking deep and had a very gentle transition at the bottom. Or, better yet, was the jump to flat?
Take a deep breath and count to 10. It's an internet forum and people are allowed to post their points of view.
1. I don't see the skid being used in the USCC or the ISOC race circuts, nor is it being used in my neck of the woods.
2. I never said the ZX2 is junk. However, I am far more inclined to believe in the worth of a product that has been proven on a race track. That holds a lot more credibility than some guy posting on a forum.
Kinda like when I read posts where a guy jumps his RX-1 fourteen feet in the air to a tail landing. Fourteen feet is the average clearance of a highway overpass. The ditch on the other side of the road must have been really fricking deep and had a very gentle transition at the bottom. Or, better yet, was the jump to flat?
Wozy
Veteran
If that ZX2 skid is running about $2000, then the way i see it, that's only $7-800 more than me throwing in an Ohlins in my sled. That seems like a fairly reasonable price to me. Hardly "big dollars" especially when you look at the other benefits.
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
Wozy said:
The problem with looking at it that way is you're ignoring the potential for problems with your front arm and rails, and ratcheting if that's ever been an issue.
The front arm can be reinforced and only needs to be done so if you are racing or rider very, very aggressively through the bumps. Yamaha's parts to reinforce the rails were like $200 last time I checked and not worth the money IMO.
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
AKrider said:
If you think those arms need much of an excuse or abuse to crack/break..... well I'm not getting into it with you. I know better.
Yes, you can buy heavier, and you can weld/reinforce, but it doesn't change my point one bit. That point was an Ohlin, by itself, would not be the end all/cure all for this skid. At minimum, it's going to take a custom (revalved, probably resprung) shock AND whatever you're going to do to the front arm - and then you STILL run the risk of cracking/breaking rails AND have the potential for ratcheting....
Changing the suspension to ANY other suspension, eliminates that potential, period. That's my only point. FWIW
I understand where you are coming from, but how has the ZX2 proven itself to be better than a stock skid? Just because it is different, doesn't make it better. There are not a whole lot of them out there and what % of that small number of owners race or ride their sleds super aggressively?
There is a big difference between 15,000 miles of groomed trail riding a 1,500 miles of ditch banging. Because AD Boivin doesn't appear to support anyone who races to use their product tells me that it is not design for that kind of abuse.
There is a big difference between 15,000 miles of groomed trail riding a 1,500 miles of ditch banging. Because AD Boivin doesn't appear to support anyone who races to use their product tells me that it is not design for that kind of abuse.
Wozy
Veteran
ahicks said:
That was exactly my thoughts. And i have extros, so no ratcheting anyways.
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
AKrider said:
I may be a little like you. I'm stuck in a groove I know works, and I'm very familiar with. I've watched the feedback from the guys running the ZX2's carefully. My impressions are that first, you have to consider these guys were ticked with their original suspensions enough to replace them with a ZX2. Second, they almost universally love the suspension - despite sometimes marginal support it seems. In my experience (and I've helped dozens perform different skid conversions), that's an almost universal trait by anyone replacing their Yammi OEM skids. If you move at all, the only direction you can go from the bottom is up. So I'm neutral on them. I'm not going to condemn them as something that doesn't work.
They don't use M-10's on the track either, and I can assure anyone asking I wouldn't go near one of those with a performance sled, but it doesn't change the fact they have a very large number of loyals/followers out there?
If you want to spend that kind of money, go for it! If asking how I'd do it, I answered that back a few notes... FWIW
Dano
TY 4 Stroke Master
I contemplated my options when I was looking to stretch my Apex to 136. I did know my mono suspension worked great, but simply wasn't strong enough for me as it wasn't built for the riding I do. IMO Looking at any race circuit as an example really shows nothing more then how to improve stock components and calibration. Although I don't snowcross race, I've done drag racing in the past, which led me to contemplate getting the ZX-2 as I would no longer be able to race in "stock" class even though the rest of my sled would qualify for stock. I say that as an example as its really not much different in the cross country/snow cross racing circuit as there is a difference in class when changing components compared to improving and calibrating OEM parts, which doesn't restrict to class up. If AD Boivin wanted exposer in the racing circuit, I'm sure they would donate skids to racers to have exposer and advertising. I'm willing to bet their are better alternatives as I'm sure the shock options are greater using OEM skids.
My Apex has over 20,000 kms on, which most of it was with the ZX-2. I can say for sure that no OEM Apex suspension would of lived up to the abuse my ZX-2 went through. Although its not perfect in calibration and I ate through more sliders then I can count, the only thing I've done is replace most wheels and bearings and a shock rebuild to synthetic oil. A weak point on most 136s I've owned was bending and buckling tunnels so the big mounting plates for the ZX-2 firms up the tunnel nicely.
The ZX-2 is a good suspension and a great alternative for those that ride hard.
Dan
My Apex has over 20,000 kms on, which most of it was with the ZX-2. I can say for sure that no OEM Apex suspension would of lived up to the abuse my ZX-2 went through. Although its not perfect in calibration and I ate through more sliders then I can count, the only thing I've done is replace most wheels and bearings and a shock rebuild to synthetic oil. A weak point on most 136s I've owned was bending and buckling tunnels so the big mounting plates for the ZX-2 firms up the tunnel nicely.
The ZX-2 is a good suspension and a great alternative for those that ride hard.
Dan
Dano
TY 4 Stroke Master
AKrider said:
There is no way to keep the transfer rod intact or keep the welds from getting fatigued or cracked in a mono suspension if you keep it at its limit. You can't strengthen a component without weakening another so sometimes your better off just changing skid.
I'm going to see how my new Nytro XTX holds out, but I'm thinking I should reinforce the rear tip up part as it "looks" like it may be a weak point. I really like the Nytro skid and I'll be working with it as appose to changing it. IMO the ZX-2 is great, but not worth $2000 over a stock Nytro skid. You can get killer shocks for half that and thats if you even need them.
Dan
I agree, the mono just isn't a burly enough skid for big bump bashing. The XTX skid is an extended version of the Pro-Active rear skid and is more capable for bump riding. The weak point on the early Pro-Actives was the front arm. The Apex RTX was improved by using a billet front shock link and reinforced front arm. It is important to valve your shocks so the skid is not bottoming out harshly and creating more stress risers in the front arm. With revalved shocks and proper springs for weight and use, the Pro-Actives ride pretty good.
I agree, the mono just isn't a burly enough skid for big bump bashing. The XTX skid is an extended version of the Pro-Active rear skid and is more capable for bump riding. The weak point on the early Pro-Actives was the front arm. The Apex RTX was improved by using a billet front shock link and reinforced front arm. It is important to valve your shocks so the skid is not bottoming out harshly and creating more stress risers in the front arm. With revalved shocks and proper springs for weight and use, the Pro-Actives ride pretty good.
