New 2017 Yamaha Sleds...

[blueironranger]

CR reads this thread and there were guesses/wishes of an 850 two stroke awhile back so that's where the 850 came from. As far as development it's not as easy as tossing the outboard HPDI on a 800cc two stroke and calling it good. The Outboards are large displacement lower reving engines that have a large safety margin to work with, an 800cc two stroke spinning 8000rpm cranking out 160hp requires far more tweaking and tuning to accomplish it next to no safety margin left. I do find it odd that the Phazer engine hasn't showed up in other products, seem like it would make a nice entry level jetski/watercraft motor or a new banshee with a gearbox added.

 

[PureBlue]

CR lay's out a pretty compelling argument for not offering a 2-stroke because what else would they be able to put that motor in? Good point. (unless they "supply" it to Cat as well) Buttttttttt, and I've been saying this for a few years now, Yamaha has not one, but two brand new from the ground up engines currently found in the FZ-09 and Fz-07. I can't help but think either one of these would be a great choice to base a sled version off of and stick it in a lightweight chassis. I don't think versions of either one of these engines are found in other products. And as for sharing engines, what about the Phazer 500? Don't think this engine is in any other Yamaha product; the TMAX comes close but it's a 530cc with a 4 valve head. So, would they just kill that engine after spending millions to develop it just to kill it 10 years later? I don't see the Phazer going away like some do, I think it will get a new/proper chassis.
just my .02

I been looking that TMax up on goggle image, there was a custom bike builder that stripped one down for Yamaha and the guy kept calling it a 850cc, when they come stock 530cc, it sounds cool with twin pipes....Another builder took a stock TMax and put a turbo on it....I see the TMax uses Clutching like snowmobiles, but it looks like there's a clutch pack in there too, is it a two speed too.

 

[soldi]

I went and bought a new skidoo summit x 800 two years ago my14, will be getting a new sled my17 and if we get a 2stroke Yamaha mountain sled or a new 4stroke engine in a properly updated Arctic chassi I will get that, as of now I call what Cr is saying as bull s**t customer loyalty is Yamahas most valuable asset

Looking at the video on benefits of the partnership, they talk about Arctics quick reaction to market needs, since they're the slowest of brp and Polaris they are really talking about Yamahas lack of interest in the market. The latest post of investment/development wowes cement the lack of interest in market, I think cat going forth my15 with Suzuki 800, Suzuki 1100, cat 600, Yama nytro engine, shows lack of commitment with the partnership from cats side. Could the Japanese culture or the scale of Yama as a buissnes be the issue?

All the talk of business strategy and multiple use of developed parts is nice buissnes talk, I work with this and you need this, but the key is if you don't commit to policy your in trouble. Looking on displays/gauges for example, they are well developed in the Yama bike division but not used elsewhere, so profitable divisions do not "share". If corporate structure fails in its most vital part, witch is passing along technology from profitable divisions to less profitable divisions (to increase profit and get rid of all obstacles Cr talks about in his rant to broaden the market and through size and risk management outdevelop others to lower cost). If this policy is not followed it usually depends (from a general perspective) on two causes, both witch are common to work with in larger organizations..

From my point of view it's clear that Cr is not heard within the organization, and policy is used one way. I think decreased sales and or inferior quality one or two more years will force action from Yamaha, and the action (or consequences) is most likely licensing technology and exiting market or replacing NA/EU representatives and get leadership who use and develop organizational structure to increase revenue instead of decrease it..

Time will tell I guess (but bitching and whining in a blog won't help in any company and especially not a Japanese one, but it does give some cred for a new job with cat after Yama releases bng my17) just give us what we want by using corporate policy..

 

[Phatboyc]

You guys know what is this on CR's blog? Is it a hint? File name tells me its a screen capture so its part of a bigger photo.

 

[lockburner2000]

New Tunner ski loop!! lost .000023lbs and you thought they could not make the sled lighter!! LOL Who Knows what it is?????

 

[blueironranger]

You guys know what is this on CR's blog? Is it a hint? File name tells me its a screen capture so its part of a bigger photo.

Clutch weight

 

[actionjack]

Looks like something made lighter by boring holes in it. Or a clutch weight arm.

 

[actionjack]

The blog sounds like a smoke screen for the truth. Hell buy some parts from the same source as the 1049 rods for the 850 and make a fortune in service.

 

[biffdotorg]

The part that resonates with me when they talk about utilizing technology in more than one platform is used by the big four. Yamaha has just been doing it outside of Yamaha with Arctic cat.

To use an example that Soldi talks about above. BRP uses engines, displays, and other tech in their SXS, ATV, Sleds and watercraft. Arctic cat does the same. Yamaha may plan on using their engine tech in more than one platform, but it may not be more than one "Yamaha" platform.

The biggest example of this. I have an Arctic Cat Wildcat. Sorry, there was no Yamaha YXZ in my price range when I purchased. We have seen the photos from AC of the 2017 prototype and what do we see on the dash, the same display cluster as the sleds. It was not used in my Wildcat, it's totally different. That means the chances of them utilizing the display is good for Arctic Cat. The chances of them using the same display and possible ECU from an AC 7000/Viper may be even better. Thus possibly using the 3-hole 1049 or the new YXZ engine in the 2017 Wildcat.

If Yamaha were to develop a 2-stroke engine, and offer it up in a new Yamaha Chassis, as well as offer it to AC, they would have more than one if not multiple platforms. I keep seeing that interview with the two execs from Yamaha and Arctic Cat on television. They were very happy with their mutually beneficial agreement, and implied that it would not end anytime soon. "you haven't seen anything yet" was actually quoted. I'm sorry, but the viper will not have a 10 year lifespan like the Apex. Arctic Cat owners expect new chassis more frequently than that. And Yamaha owners may benefit from it as well.

The cats will be revealed sooner than the Yamahas. But Arctic Cat has had no issues keeping something up their sleeve till Haydays in the past. They seem to do it every year. So if you don't see a new Yamaha influenced cat at their spring release, don't be surprised. Yamaha may hold them to hiding it until they are ready with the blue version. The rumor mill on the cat sled and wildcat forums is strong, and the turbo Yamaha powered wildcat rumor is probably at the top of the list. That only proves that this agreement is far from dead and possibly only getting bigger.

We are all guessing. Now back to CR's blog. What about the graphic at the top? Looks like a button with an arrow pointing at the third or fourth hole? Sort of a CAD drawing of a button?

 

[TKB]

Haha i will keep my Nypex and my poo rmk. I think yamaha just should throw the towel if they are not willing to go all in to be no1

 

[4strokeluvr111]

New Tunner ski loop!! lost .000023lbs and you thought they could not make the sled lighter!! LOL Who Knows what it is?????

That is what I thought.

 

[T-Bone]

CR was completely quiet for months and now new posts after new post. Chris, with all due respect, it seems like you are trying to justify past Yamaha decisions and are trying to convince us that Yamaha is on the right path. As Bill Parcels says, "You are what your record says you are." The historical decisions Yamaha has made since the all 4 stroke platform was implemented has resulted in a last place finish for market share. Say what you want or give whatever excuse you want but that is proof, as of today, that those were bad decisions. My understanding is that Yamaha is not even number one in the sale of 4-stroke snowmobiles, that honor belongs to Ski-Doo. You make it sound as though Ski-Doo and Polaris are going to go out of business because they offer 2-stroke snowmobiles to their customers. Imagine where Yamaha would be if they had made a different decision to continue to offer BOTH 2 and 4- stroke snowmobiles in stead of just 4-strokes. If Yamaha 2-strokes were as good as their 4-stroke I bet they would have sold a lot more sleds and made a lot more money. I have owned Yamahas since 2006 and since that time Yamaha's market share has decreased from 12% to about 5%. During that same time Skidoo has gone from 40% to about 46%. At approximately 150,000 units sold world wide, that makes the score: Ski-Doo 60,000 units to Yamaha's 7,500 units. Did it pay for Skidoo to offer 2-strokes? I think so. Here is hopeing for a new strategy from Yamaha.

 

[lockburner2000]

Interesting poll on what peoples next sled would be powered by. 2 stroke or 4 stroke

http://www.supertraxmag.com/poll_results.asp?id=67

 

[striker606]

I honestly think yamaha is just going to release a new 2 up in the cat chassis. Vipers are all going to be the same just new graphics. Then 2018 is when we will see a new strictly yamaha platform.

 

[fxnytrortxkid]

Looks like brake rotor to me.